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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 5749585" data-attributes="member: 29398">And to muddy the waters yet further...There's different scales of balance.There's the immediate scale (can everyone contribute equally to every situation/encounter/battle) - this one's where 4e really went overboard and it's not necessary at all.&nbsp; Some things are best left to the experts.There's the short-term scale (will everyone have a chance to shine every session) - while nice to have, this isn't necessary provided the long-term balance is working.And there's the long-term scale (will everyone get a chance to shine at some point) - this is necessary.&nbsp; My usual example here is 1e Illusionists - if the adventure is all about undead they're hopeless, but if the next adventure's opponents are mostly dumb Ogres the Illusionist becomes the most valuable character in the party!Another aspect is that the editions have - at least in my view - become more and more rigidly turn-based in their encounter resolution mechanics as time goes on; the problem here is that when it's turn-based everyone naturally expects to have their turn exactly as often as everyone else - which is another way of saying the system leads them to expect immediate-scale balance.&nbsp; Fine for a board game.&nbsp; Not so fine for the ebb and flow of a RPG.Lan-&quot;I'm not an expert; leave things to me at your own risk&quot;-efan</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 5749585, member: 29398"] And to muddy the waters yet further... There's different scales of balance. There's the immediate scale (can everyone contribute equally to every situation/encounter/battle) - this one's where 4e really went overboard and it's not necessary at all. Some things are best left to the experts. There's the short-term scale (will everyone have a chance to shine every session) - while nice to have, this isn't necessary provided the long-term balance is working. And there's the long-term scale (will everyone get a chance to shine at some point) - this is necessary. My usual example here is 1e Illusionists - if the adventure is all about undead they're hopeless, but if the next adventure's opponents are mostly dumb Ogres the Illusionist becomes the most valuable character in the party! Another aspect is that the editions have - at least in my view - become more and more rigidly turn-based in their encounter resolution mechanics as time goes on; the problem here is that when it's turn-based everyone naturally expects to have their turn exactly as often as everyone else - which is another way of saying the system leads them to expect immediate-scale balance. Fine for a board game. Not so fine for the ebb and flow of a RPG. Lan-"I'm not an expert; leave things to me at your own risk"-efan [/QUOTE]

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