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Balancing a Homebrew AoE Stun Spell
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<blockquote data-quote="Esker" data-source="post: 7570347" data-attributes="member: 6966824"><p>I did see them, but I don't feel like you've addressed the resource cost difference. You say that this spell makes a caster outdo the monk at one of their defining class features, but do you think casters also outdo battlemaster fighters with GWF/GWM at doing damage in tier 2 because the wizard can sometimes cause 8d6 damage to a bunch of creatures at a time by hurling a fireball, whereas the fighter can do about that much to three creatures tops only if they invest in a feat, manage to hit multiple times with a -5 penalty, and spend superiority dice? I wouldn't say that. A third level spell slot is a burst resource in a way that a single ki point, or a superiority die (both of which you only have to spend at all if you hit in most cases), isn't. Of course a 3rd level spell is going to have a bigger impact than something you can do almost every round.</p><p></p><p>Consider a hypothetical character that has access to both stunning strike and this spell, with the same DC for each (I don't know why you'd ever build such a MAD abomination as a Wizard 5 / Monk 5, but it's a theoretical exercise). You're concentrating on... I don't know... Blur, say. What do you do on your turn? Do you take your two attacks and spend a couple of ki points attempting to stun one or two targets, plus a bonus action unarmed strike? Or do you take your whole action and use a third level slot to try to stun two creatures (maybe three if you get really lucky)? In most situations it feels like no contest: I'd almost always attack and do stunning strike. And then again on my next turn. Maybe if I know that I'm up against high AC, high CON, low INT enemies I'd cast the spell instead, since maybe in that circumstance it's worth sacrificing three attacks worth of potential damage this turn, a use of hypnotic pattern or a fireball later in the day, the chance of granting myself advantage on my next turn's attacks, and potentially reducing the number of my allies' attacks that have advantage as well, in order to increase the chances that the stun sticks now. But generally speaking, it seems like stunning strike is a more efficient use of resources.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Esker, post: 7570347, member: 6966824"] I did see them, but I don't feel like you've addressed the resource cost difference. You say that this spell makes a caster outdo the monk at one of their defining class features, but do you think casters also outdo battlemaster fighters with GWF/GWM at doing damage in tier 2 because the wizard can sometimes cause 8d6 damage to a bunch of creatures at a time by hurling a fireball, whereas the fighter can do about that much to three creatures tops only if they invest in a feat, manage to hit multiple times with a -5 penalty, and spend superiority dice? I wouldn't say that. A third level spell slot is a burst resource in a way that a single ki point, or a superiority die (both of which you only have to spend at all if you hit in most cases), isn't. Of course a 3rd level spell is going to have a bigger impact than something you can do almost every round. Consider a hypothetical character that has access to both stunning strike and this spell, with the same DC for each (I don't know why you'd ever build such a MAD abomination as a Wizard 5 / Monk 5, but it's a theoretical exercise). You're concentrating on... I don't know... Blur, say. What do you do on your turn? Do you take your two attacks and spend a couple of ki points attempting to stun one or two targets, plus a bonus action unarmed strike? Or do you take your whole action and use a third level slot to try to stun two creatures (maybe three if you get really lucky)? In most situations it feels like no contest: I'd almost always attack and do stunning strike. And then again on my next turn. Maybe if I know that I'm up against high AC, high CON, low INT enemies I'd cast the spell instead, since maybe in that circumstance it's worth sacrificing three attacks worth of potential damage this turn, a use of hypnotic pattern or a fireball later in the day, the chance of granting myself advantage on my next turn's attacks, and potentially reducing the number of my allies' attacks that have advantage as well, in order to increase the chances that the stun sticks now. But generally speaking, it seems like stunning strike is a more efficient use of resources. [/QUOTE]
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