Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Balancing/Creating Races (Using Green Ronin's APM) [Updated 4/18/08]
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 4172870" data-attributes="member: 13966"><p>See my notes below regarding the half-elf, since they're so similar. The elf is a bit stronger than a human, though. I'd probably reduce the skill bonuses and save bonus a bit to compensate. That'd still leave them a bit stronger, but I'm not really sure what could be taken away without also removing the same thing from half-elves or quarter-elves.</p><p></p><p>Hrm. Worse than a human, ability-score-wise. Detect Magic ability should at least include a "to a minimum caster level of 1" clause. Sleep/enchantment benefit is better than a feat but probably not quite worth 2 feats (keep in mind that all or nearly all magical sleep effects are enchantments, so the benefits kinda overlap). The bonus feats are nice, but only 1 or 2 of them are likely to see actual use, possibly none, depending on the individual's class. Low-light is probably like a feat in usefulness. The extra class skills are almost worth a feat, but many half-elves are liable to be wizards or something, who already get those skills. The skill bonuses are three feats' worth.</p><p></p><p>So...all in all it's equivalent to a human's bonus feats and extra talent, and their extra skill points.....but their ability score modifiers probably make them a bit inferior to humans for most, if not all, purposes. Still solid and good for rogues, wizards, and some bards or rangers, but inferior to humans overall and probably a bit less effective in the aforementioned roles. Probably deserving a choice between +2 Int or +2 Cha, and they should at least get 1 bonus feat like a human.</p><p></p><p>Oh, by the way. Per the Monster Manual rules, any race with a natural swim speed automatically gets a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks, and doesn't need to make those checks for normal swimming, only difficult stuff like hazards.</p><p></p><p>These quarter-elves are definitely weaker than humans. Their save bonuses are worth no more than 1 feat (Iron Will would provide the same benefit and more, since Enchantments are always Will save effects), and that only because they would stack with Iron Will if the individual took that feat at some point. The Search/Spot bonus and Human/Elf Blood are worth roughly 1 feat as well, combined. The Detect Magic ability doesn't quite make up for the reduced flexibility of their racial ability score bonus, and also, you should include some extra tidbit like "to a minimum caster level of 1" so that the ability is actually useable at 1st-level. They also lack the greater number of skill points that a human gets.</p><p></p><p>Overall, I'd rate them as roughly 2 feats behind a human in ability, aside from the more disparate spread of their racial benefits (kind of good magic users, but fewer feats and skill points, slightly effective rogues, and nothing more).</p><p></p><p>Humans are fine, they're the baseline anyhow. It's definitely on the high end of an LA +0, probably worth an LA +1, but since humans are the baseline, it doesn't matter much. At least it's not focused power, so it shouldn't make them much better than any CR 1 opponent they might face, so it shouldn't mess up the standard CR system.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arkhandus, post: 4172870, member: 13966"] See my notes below regarding the half-elf, since they're so similar. The elf is a bit stronger than a human, though. I'd probably reduce the skill bonuses and save bonus a bit to compensate. That'd still leave them a bit stronger, but I'm not really sure what could be taken away without also removing the same thing from half-elves or quarter-elves. Hrm. Worse than a human, ability-score-wise. Detect Magic ability should at least include a "to a minimum caster level of 1" clause. Sleep/enchantment benefit is better than a feat but probably not quite worth 2 feats (keep in mind that all or nearly all magical sleep effects are enchantments, so the benefits kinda overlap). The bonus feats are nice, but only 1 or 2 of them are likely to see actual use, possibly none, depending on the individual's class. Low-light is probably like a feat in usefulness. The extra class skills are almost worth a feat, but many half-elves are liable to be wizards or something, who already get those skills. The skill bonuses are three feats' worth. So...all in all it's equivalent to a human's bonus feats and extra talent, and their extra skill points.....but their ability score modifiers probably make them a bit inferior to humans for most, if not all, purposes. Still solid and good for rogues, wizards, and some bards or rangers, but inferior to humans overall and probably a bit less effective in the aforementioned roles. Probably deserving a choice between +2 Int or +2 Cha, and they should at least get 1 bonus feat like a human. Oh, by the way. Per the Monster Manual rules, any race with a natural swim speed automatically gets a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks, and doesn't need to make those checks for normal swimming, only difficult stuff like hazards. These quarter-elves are definitely weaker than humans. Their save bonuses are worth no more than 1 feat (Iron Will would provide the same benefit and more, since Enchantments are always Will save effects), and that only because they would stack with Iron Will if the individual took that feat at some point. The Search/Spot bonus and Human/Elf Blood are worth roughly 1 feat as well, combined. The Detect Magic ability doesn't quite make up for the reduced flexibility of their racial ability score bonus, and also, you should include some extra tidbit like "to a minimum caster level of 1" so that the ability is actually useable at 1st-level. They also lack the greater number of skill points that a human gets. Overall, I'd rate them as roughly 2 feats behind a human in ability, aside from the more disparate spread of their racial benefits (kind of good magic users, but fewer feats and skill points, slightly effective rogues, and nothing more). Humans are fine, they're the baseline anyhow. It's definitely on the high end of an LA +0, probably worth an LA +1, but since humans are the baseline, it doesn't matter much. At least it's not focused power, so it shouldn't make them much better than any CR 1 opponent they might face, so it shouldn't mess up the standard CR system. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Balancing/Creating Races (Using Green Ronin's APM) [Updated 4/18/08]
Top