Balancing powerswap

[marli]

Hi
im building my own world(well stealing it fro MTG and adapting it)
and have 8 races
im just doing basic reskins for 5 of the races
but three im doing major powerswaps.

. I need to make sure:
1. its usable
2. its balanced
3.its fun

here the one id like some feedback on as its a bit out there.:

IM EVERYWHERE
Kor Racial power
Encounter
Minor Action.
Effect
Your character splits into two. the secondary body shifts up to 5 squares. (as a guide things such a a rope can be strung between them at this point as a minor action)
the character has two bodys.
any effects that effect one body effects the other.
(flanked, prone,stunned, pushed, pulled etc)
both bodys can be flanked in combination(if the primary body has an enemy to the West and the seconday body has an enemy to the East, they are flanked)
Targeting is resolved individully(so a single attack on the primary body is just one attack on the character, but if both bodies are targeted by an area effect its two seperate attacks on the character)
Although a character may chose to have an action originate from different bodies they still only have the same amount of action to share between the bodies. character cannot have bodies complete action at he same time unless they could do that anyway.

The effect can be ended by a standard action if both bodys occupy an ajacent square. or with a short rest at range.(it does not end if the character falls unconcios)

The charcter can activate this power if they take falling damage that reduces them to below 0 as immidate interupt EVEN IF ALREADY USED.

--------------
Id like some feedback on this.
the ideaolgy behind this is the idea of the Kor climbing and repalling up cliff faces using
using this power to cross uncrossable locations.
also to make it clear there is still the one hitpoint/surge pool.

I can think of lots of ways to weaken this power.
make it a standard to activate.
there is no shift
make the shift a move
make the shift cost a move.
the body teleports but scatters to a random safe square
both bodys scatter?(possible make the power better?)
decrease the shift/move
all action per turn must originate from the same body
the effect can only be ended by a short rest.
the can only use the emmmidate interupt if its not already been use
they dont get the interupt.

I looking to reskin this onto dwarve and remove the resist shift ability.

my world is quite vertical so falling is a more than standard risk.

 

[shamsael]

I don't think special flanking rules are necessary. I would also say that further weakening the power would destroy it. I think it would be more interesting to see it beefed up and turned into a daily.

I would do this, personally:

Temporary Twin
Daily
Minor Action
Effect: You are Weakened until the end of the encounter. Place a Duplicate anywhere within a burst 5 of the character. The duplicate is identical to the character and the two share the same HP pool. Any action taken by the character may also be taken by the duplicate, unless a power is used, in which case the player decides whether the power originates from the character or the Duplicate. The character and duplicate halve all damage, but gain Vulnerable 5 against any attack that targets both of them. Any status effect, other than ongoing damage, that applies to the character also applies to the duplicate and vice-versa.
Special: If the character would fall, you may use this power as an immediate interrupt.

The Weakened condition makes this slightly worse than inexplicably gaining access to the Ranger's Twin Strike at-will for an encounter.

I couldn't think of a clean way to have the duplicate catch himself, but some variant of the Swarm rules would probably fill the same crunch (with radically different fluff).

 

[marli]

thanks. but id like to keep it an encounter,

than inexplicably gaining access to the Ranger's Twin Strike at-will for an encounter.

also they only get one attack
"they still only have the same amount of action to share between the bodies"
so 1 standard, 1 move, 1 minor
EITHER body can use them but not both.

maybe it is too weak, which is why i posted here.

I like the wording

Place a Duplicate anywhere within a burst 5 of the character.

 

[shamsael]

thanks. but id like to keep it an encounter,

also they only get one attack
"they still only have the same amount of action to share between the bodies"
so 1 standard, 1 move, 1 minor
EITHER body can use them but not both.

maybe it is too weak, which is why i posted here.

I like the wording

I'm gonna go ahead and use my version in my next campaign then

Strictly responding to your version, I think the flanking part is the most problematic. The way it reads, I could make the argument that if the Character and his Duplicate flanked an Orc, the Orc would likewise have them flanked.

Also, the idea of an Encounter power that applies an effect for an entire encounter seems like it might as well be a static ability.

 

[shamsael]

thanks. but id like to keep it an encounter,

also they only get one attack
"they still only have the same amount of action to share between the bodies"
so 1 standard, 1 move, 1 minor
EITHER body can use them but not both.

maybe it is too weak, which is why i posted here.

I like the wording

In my version, they would get multiple attacks, at least multiple Basic attacks, anyway.

The problem with your version is that it's essentially an encounter power that applies a large number of weaknesses upon the character in exchange for the ability to hold onto a rope.

What you're doing when you activate this encounter is create a second body. Enemies wishing to attack you now have two targets to choose from if they want to hurt you. If you want to get away from your enemies, only one of your bodies can move at full speed, or you can have BOTH bodies move at half speed (each taking a move action, forgoing the standard action). The smartest thing to do after you activate this power is get the hell away from eachother before someone catches you both in an AoE. That's not how I would have imagined a heroic Kor Cliffthreader's secret ace-up-the-sleeve working.

I mean no offense, but I would like to humorously reflavour your version of the power in order to demonstrate how bad this power is. (I don't mean bad in terms of concept, but bad in terms of balance in that it is far, far too weak)

Simulacrum of Personal Pain
Flavour Text: Lazy masochists use this power to ensure that those who wish to harm them never have to go far out of their way to make that happen.
Encounter
Minor Action
Effect: You create a Simulacrum within burst 5. All damage dealt to the simulacrum is redirected to you. All status effects applied to the simulacrum are redirected to you. If both you and the Simulacrum are adjacent to any enemies, you and the Simulacrum grant combat advantage to those enemies (I know that's worse than your wording, but I can't think of an elegant way to state it, and it is, in my opinion, only SLIGHTLY worse). You may spend a move action to move the simulacrum up to your speed. (And now, the only up side) You may use the simulacrum as the point of origin for any attacks you make. (And one final horrifying downside) If you are reduced to 0 hit points, the simulacrum remains in play and continues to redirect damage to you while you are unconscious. (WTF!?)
Special: The charcter can activate this power if they take falling damage that reduces them to below 0 as immidate interupt EVEN IF ALREADY USED.

I can't imagine why you'd active this when you're about to die. Even as you write it, the two share the same HP total, so the Duplicate would come into play unconscious with 0 hp.

 

[marli]

OK how about.

Minor Action.
Effect
place a second of your character in a burst 5 (as a guide things such a a rope can be strung between them at this point as a minor action)
the character has two bodys.
any effects that effect one body effects the other.
(flanked, prone,stunned, pushed, pulled etc)
Targeting is resolved individully(so a single attack on the primary body is just one attack on the character, but if both bodies are targeted by an area effect it two seperate attacks on the character)
Although a character may chose to have an action originate from different bodies they still only have the same amount of action to share between the bodies.
A single move action can be split between bodies buth the total move must be valid. .character cannot have bodies complete action at he same time unless they could do that anyway.

The effect can be ended by a standard action if both bodys occupy an ajacent square. or with a short rest at range.

The charcter can activate this power if they take falling damage the the reduces them to below 0 as immidate interupt EVEN IF ALREADY USED.

 

[shamsael]

OK how about.

Minor Action.
Effect
place a second of your character in a burst 5 (as a guide things such a a rope can be strung between them at this point as a minor action)
the character has two bodys.
any effects that effect one body effects the other.
(flanked, prone,stunned, pushed, pulled etc)
Targeting is resolved individully(so a single attack on the primary body is just one attack on the character, but if both bodies are targeted by an area effect it two seperate attacks on the character)
Although a character may chose to have an action originate from different bodies they still only have the same amount of action to share between the bodies.
A single move action can be split between bodies buth the total move must be valid. .character cannot have bodies complete action at he same time unless they could do that anyway.

The effect can be ended by a standard action if both bodys occupy an ajacent square. or with a short rest at range.

The charcter can activate this power if they take falling damage the the reduces them to below 0 as immidate interupt EVEN IF ALREADY USED.

If you're intending for this power to only be used outside of combat and you balance your game so that such non-combat encounters are as important as combat encounters, then I guess it's fine.

As a combat power, though, it still mainly serves to make the user easier to hit by putting him in range of more enemies and allowing for a double-jeopardy situation when area-effects are involved without granting any real advantages to offset this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the existing pet classes get to move both the pet and the character at full speed with one move action.

Edit:
This is the Sorrows Path of D&D powers.

It still serves the purpose of creating a secondary character who redirects all of his damage to you. Impeding the secondary character's movement complicates matters worse by ensuring that neither the original nor the duplicate will be able to maneuver about the battlefield. I promise you that the most immediate obvious effect of this power is to make it easier for opponents to hurt you in combat. Simply rewording the text or tweaking the drawbacks is not going to fix it.

The only way to fix it is to admit that a power that turns you into two people should be really powerful and go from there.

Get rid of the drawbacks. Implement a modified version of the swarm rule. Let them each body make a Basic Attack on one standard action. Make it daily.

 

[marli]

. I promise you that the most immediate obvious effect of this power is to make it easier for opponents to hurt you in combat

as a defender or controller that not all bad.

Simply rewording the text or tweaking the drawbacks is not going to fix it.

Make it daily.

As I said before I really dont want it as a daily. its a racial power and as such that seems overpowered.
So again you are saying its too weak,

anyone else have any suggestions?
how about....
add.... if one body make a standard melee attack the other may also may make a standard melee attack as a free action.

 

[shamsael]

as a defender or controller that not all bad.

As a defender it's a wash. Yes, you are more likely to be selected as a target, but at the same time you lose the ability to force the enemy to actually come over to where you're standing to swing at you.

I can't imagine why a controller would benefit from getting hit.

As I said before I really dont want it as a daily. its a racial power and as such that seems overpowered.
So again you are saying its too weak,

Making the power daily doesn't make it more powerful. Daily powers are the safest thing to design, in my opinion, because they so rarely get used and therefor have the smallest impact on the game. Making it a daily weakens the powers overall impact on the game allowing you to loosen your restrictions on what that power can do when it is used.

anyone else have any suggestions?
how about....
add.... if one body make a standard melee attack the other may also may make a standard melee attack as a free action.

Granting the free basic attack is a start, but you still need to address the fact that using this power makes you substantially more vulnarable and substantially less mobile.

 

[marli]

hmm...well I as I said I dont want a daily.
id rather try and balance the power.
i have followed a different train of thought
different square, but CANT be hit.......like mage hand......but can attack...........
so players get ADVANCED MAGE HAND
you may use any melee power via this mage hand
but all skill stat mods are replaced with DEX/INT(not sure which) except STR which is 6(-2)