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<blockquote data-quote="Reynard" data-source="post: 2739271" data-attributes="member: 467">Over at RPG.net, there's a thread regarding story elements (climax, drama, etc..) versus dice outcomes that has kind of vered off into system discussions.&nbsp; i'd like to talk about it without getting into &quot;this system supports/doesn't support this play style&quot;, so I thought I'd start a thread here with a focus on the problem as it relates to D&amp;D 3.x in particular.The issue seems to have arisen regarding 'fudging' -- that is, the DM changing the results of a die roll to keep a PC alive, or otherwise stop an undramatic or anti-climatic event from occurring.&nbsp; I am, in general, against fudging, because I think the story elements (the &quot;RP&quot;) are no more important than the system elements (the &quot;G&quot;).&nbsp; In fact, the two are inextricably linked and be emphasizing one over the other, the entire thing is weakened.&nbsp; IMO, anyway.So, the question is this.&nbsp; Do the game elements&nbsp; -- the rults of dice roles, the feats and skills and other system bits, etc... -- play second fiddle to the role-playing elements -- a 'good story', dramatic climaxes, narrative flow -- in your games?&nbsp; If so, do you only 'fudge' in favor of the PCs, or will you do so in favor of NPCs, too?&nbsp; If not, when the dice give a result that disrupts the adventure plot -- a TPK, say -- how do you salvage the 'story'?For my part, I think the story comes out of the game.&nbsp; When the session is over, that chapter is complete and only then do you know 'what happened'.&nbsp; There never is a 'supposed to happen'.&nbsp; A dramatic fight is one that is fun and complex and makes everyone around the table get involved.&nbsp; A dramatic scene is one in which the players and the GM find themselves immersed in what's going on and who is involved.&nbsp; And if a character dies uncermoniously, for example, it is another part of the larger, ever-unfolding story, not a undramatic or anbticlimactic event.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Reynard, post: 2739271, member: 467"] Over at RPG.net, there's a thread regarding story elements (climax, drama, etc..) versus dice outcomes that has kind of vered off into system discussions. i'd like to talk about it without getting into "this system supports/doesn't support this play style", so I thought I'd start a thread here with a focus on the problem as it relates to D&D 3.x in particular. The issue seems to have arisen regarding 'fudging' -- that is, the DM changing the results of a die roll to keep a PC alive, or otherwise stop an undramatic or anti-climatic event from occurring. I am, in general, against fudging, because I think the story elements (the "RP") are no more important than the system elements (the "G"). In fact, the two are inextricably linked and be emphasizing one over the other, the entire thing is weakened. IMO, anyway. So, the question is this. Do the game elements -- the rults of dice roles, the feats and skills and other system bits, etc... -- play second fiddle to the role-playing elements -- a 'good story', dramatic climaxes, narrative flow -- in your games? If so, do you only 'fudge' in favor of the PCs, or will you do so in favor of NPCs, too? If not, when the dice give a result that disrupts the adventure plot -- a TPK, say -- how do you salvage the 'story'? For my part, I think the story comes out of the game. When the session is over, that chapter is complete and only then do you know 'what happened'. There never is a 'supposed to happen'. A dramatic fight is one that is fun and complex and makes everyone around the table get involved. A dramatic scene is one in which the players and the GM find themselves immersed in what's going on and who is involved. And if a character dies uncermoniously, for example, it is another part of the larger, ever-unfolding story, not a undramatic or anbticlimactic event. [/QUOTE]

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