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<blockquote data-quote="RedWick" data-source="post: 2748528" data-attributes="member: 29119">I think people are rightfully concerned about the breaking of trust between DM and player when the DM decides to fudge rolls, as I hear that same underlying theme in just about all of the anti-fudging posts I've read (even when it delved into the category of describing what railroading is).&nbsp; If a player can't trust the DM in all aspects of the game, then the player won't be enjoying the game to the fullest, as they'll be wondering whether they succeeded because they rolled well, or because the GM decided arbitratily to grant them a success.I can also see that there are two sides to this argument which all into a kind of &quot;RPGs as cooperative play&quot; vs. &quot;RPGs as competitive play&quot; (friendly DM vs Player, essentially).&nbsp; In the first instance, fudging dice does nothing to diminish the game since everybody's good time rests on making sure the story, or whatever, progressess forward.&nbsp; People become interested in exploring their characters, the game world or the plot and use the system as a means of doing so.&nbsp; In the second instance, since it's competitive and the DM is setting up situations for the players to overcome, fudging die rolls diminishes the player's accomplishments in besting the DM.&nbsp; It's like saying either &quot;Nyah nyah!&nbsp; If you didn't have my help, then you never would have succeded!&quot; or &quot;Ha ha!&nbsp; You couldn't even overcome that simple thing?&quot;.&nbsp; In competitive play, if there's *any* chance that one side is abusing the trust of the other (calls of DM or player cheating come to mind...), then you're just going to end up with a lot of disgruntled and quite unhappy people.&nbsp; No?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="RedWick, post: 2748528, member: 29119"] I think people are rightfully concerned about the breaking of trust between DM and player when the DM decides to fudge rolls, as I hear that same underlying theme in just about all of the anti-fudging posts I've read (even when it delved into the category of describing what railroading is). If a player can't trust the DM in all aspects of the game, then the player won't be enjoying the game to the fullest, as they'll be wondering whether they succeeded because they rolled well, or because the GM decided arbitratily to grant them a success. I can also see that there are two sides to this argument which all into a kind of "RPGs as cooperative play" vs. "RPGs as competitive play" (friendly DM vs Player, essentially). In the first instance, fudging dice does nothing to diminish the game since everybody's good time rests on making sure the story, or whatever, progressess forward. People become interested in exploring their characters, the game world or the plot and use the system as a means of doing so. In the second instance, since it's competitive and the DM is setting up situations for the players to overcome, fudging die rolls diminishes the player's accomplishments in besting the DM. It's like saying either "Nyah nyah! If you didn't have my help, then you never would have succeded!" or "Ha ha! You couldn't even overcome that simple thing?". In competitive play, if there's *any* chance that one side is abusing the trust of the other (calls of DM or player cheating come to mind...), then you're just going to end up with a lot of disgruntled and quite unhappy people. No? [/QUOTE]

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