Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Baldman Games & WotC On All Access Issues At Gen Con
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 7678460" data-attributes="member: 5143"><p>The key here is that the only thing promised was the same DM for all 4 of the adventures, a group of tables dedicated to All-Access Pass players and less players at their table. I'd have to double check the writeup for the All-Access Pass but I doubt it even mentioned "surprises" or anything beyond those things. The surprises were just expected because they gave them out for the last 2 years. Though 2 years ago the price of All-Access Pass was lower(only $100) and the attendees got the Ghosts of Castle Dragonspear adventure as part of their purchase price. But in that year, they actually told everyone they were getting a copy of the book(along with a free set of Gencon Exclusive Dice) when they purchased their ticket(though not on the Gencon site, in a FAQ on Baldman Game's site).</p><p></p><p>Which is why last year a lot of people asked why the price went up so much and the amount of stuff promised went down(since the description didn't say anything about books or dice or anything) in the forums Baldman refused to say anything other than "Don't worry. It'll be worth it." Which is why I risked the money and felt that what we got was worth it.</p><p></p><p>This year, they went the same route as last year. Still $150 dollars with no promises of anything other than a dedicated DM, tables set aside just for them, and 6 player tables. A lot of people EXPECTED to get something really awesome when they arrived because of the awesome stuff that had been handed out last year. And I understand these expectations. After all, when you put down $150 for something, you expect $150 worth of value for your money. However, nothing else was ever promised.</p><p></p><p>I'd likely be very pissed when I showed up and that's all I got as well. Because even though nothing else was promised, there was the implication based on the price and the history of the All-Access program that you'd get something cool when you arrived to make that $150 worth it. When they didn't get the stuff they expected, the people were right to be angry.</p><p></p><p>However, now that Baldman has made it right and given out gifts worth even more than the gifts from last year, they've made it right. It doesn't matter that the gifts were provided by WOTC and n-Space. The stuff that Baldman has given out has always come from third parties. Should those things have been made available at the con? Probably. But the real problem is that it's hard to put an exact value on what WAS promised. It's possible that Dave Christ feels that $150 is worth it with no extra surprises at all. And for some people that value judgment will be different. I agree with him that "surprises" should be removed and in the future the All-Access Pass should simply have a certain number of things promised and see if people find those things worth the money that's being asked for it.</p><p></p><p>The only real argument I can see being made is that the one promise that they actually did break was that people got a "premium D&D experience". That one is MUCH harder to discuss though. What one person sees as premium another sees as horrible. DMing skill is rather subjective and what one table thinks is a great DM another might hate. Which is why having a dedicated DM for the whole weekend could be as much a hindrance as a benefit. Don't like your DM's style? Too bad, you're stuck with it for a whole weekend. I know that our DM last year was "alright" but at least once during the Special(and a couple other times) he obviously hadn't read the adventure close enough and the adventure got really weird because things he said 5 minutes before hand were suddenly contradicted. We muddled through and had fun despite the problems but at least a couple of my friends were a little disappointed that we paid for a "premium" DM and had to put up with that. We all decided that we mostly had fun and the problems weren't big enough to complain about, however.</p><p></p><p>I know from experience that some people REALLY hate my DMing style. On the other hand, during the couple of years in a row I ran games at Gencon, at least 3 times players came up to me to thank me for being the best DM they had all weekend at Gencon due to some poor experiences with other DMs(unfortunately, some of which I've shared when I've PLAYED at Gencon). So, how good your experience is can sometimes just come down to a match between players and DM. And Baldman can't sit down at every table at Gencon to see whether their DMs are giving poor experiences. The only thing you can do is give Baldman feedback about your DM and hope bad DMs aren't invited back.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 7678460, member: 5143"] The key here is that the only thing promised was the same DM for all 4 of the adventures, a group of tables dedicated to All-Access Pass players and less players at their table. I'd have to double check the writeup for the All-Access Pass but I doubt it even mentioned "surprises" or anything beyond those things. The surprises were just expected because they gave them out for the last 2 years. Though 2 years ago the price of All-Access Pass was lower(only $100) and the attendees got the Ghosts of Castle Dragonspear adventure as part of their purchase price. But in that year, they actually told everyone they were getting a copy of the book(along with a free set of Gencon Exclusive Dice) when they purchased their ticket(though not on the Gencon site, in a FAQ on Baldman Game's site). Which is why last year a lot of people asked why the price went up so much and the amount of stuff promised went down(since the description didn't say anything about books or dice or anything) in the forums Baldman refused to say anything other than "Don't worry. It'll be worth it." Which is why I risked the money and felt that what we got was worth it. This year, they went the same route as last year. Still $150 dollars with no promises of anything other than a dedicated DM, tables set aside just for them, and 6 player tables. A lot of people EXPECTED to get something really awesome when they arrived because of the awesome stuff that had been handed out last year. And I understand these expectations. After all, when you put down $150 for something, you expect $150 worth of value for your money. However, nothing else was ever promised. I'd likely be very pissed when I showed up and that's all I got as well. Because even though nothing else was promised, there was the implication based on the price and the history of the All-Access program that you'd get something cool when you arrived to make that $150 worth it. When they didn't get the stuff they expected, the people were right to be angry. However, now that Baldman has made it right and given out gifts worth even more than the gifts from last year, they've made it right. It doesn't matter that the gifts were provided by WOTC and n-Space. The stuff that Baldman has given out has always come from third parties. Should those things have been made available at the con? Probably. But the real problem is that it's hard to put an exact value on what WAS promised. It's possible that Dave Christ feels that $150 is worth it with no extra surprises at all. And for some people that value judgment will be different. I agree with him that "surprises" should be removed and in the future the All-Access Pass should simply have a certain number of things promised and see if people find those things worth the money that's being asked for it. The only real argument I can see being made is that the one promise that they actually did break was that people got a "premium D&D experience". That one is MUCH harder to discuss though. What one person sees as premium another sees as horrible. DMing skill is rather subjective and what one table thinks is a great DM another might hate. Which is why having a dedicated DM for the whole weekend could be as much a hindrance as a benefit. Don't like your DM's style? Too bad, you're stuck with it for a whole weekend. I know that our DM last year was "alright" but at least once during the Special(and a couple other times) he obviously hadn't read the adventure close enough and the adventure got really weird because things he said 5 minutes before hand were suddenly contradicted. We muddled through and had fun despite the problems but at least a couple of my friends were a little disappointed that we paid for a "premium" DM and had to put up with that. We all decided that we mostly had fun and the problems weren't big enough to complain about, however. I know from experience that some people REALLY hate my DMing style. On the other hand, during the couple of years in a row I ran games at Gencon, at least 3 times players came up to me to thank me for being the best DM they had all weekend at Gencon due to some poor experiences with other DMs(unfortunately, some of which I've shared when I've PLAYED at Gencon). So, how good your experience is can sometimes just come down to a match between players and DM. And Baldman can't sit down at every table at Gencon to see whether their DMs are giving poor experiences. The only thing you can do is give Baldman feedback about your DM and hope bad DMs aren't invited back. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Baldman Games & WotC On All Access Issues At Gen Con
Top