Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Baldur's Gate 3 will now be releasing August 3rd on PC and September 6th on PS5, increased level cap, race & class details and more
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 9062045" data-attributes="member: 6677017"><p>Honestly (and I'm probably going to get strong disagreement on this), I think one of the biggest things holding back even the best game building software (like NWN) is too much reliance on the mindset and assumed skills of software design and coding.</p><p></p><p>A couple examples (may not apply to all systems, but is typical):</p><p>-Changes tend to be automatically applied, rather than relying on a save or apply feature. This assumes a higher level of competence than should be assumed, and is different from how most software for typical consumers operates.</p><p>-Insufficiently accessible UI. They should have lots of drag and drop functionality, better organized menus, etc.</p><p></p><p>What is really needed is an end user accessibility consultant with limited (though not zero) software design skills. They need someone to periodically look at it and give meaningful feedback on what is not as straightforward as it should be. </p><p></p><p>The systems could also be designed to do more out of the box, without any scripting or involved scripting-like design. While AI might help with it, it shouldn't be necessary.</p><p></p><p>For instance if you are setting up dialog options and other results of interactions with an NPC, it should pop up a visual flow chart where you can click to make new nodes, drag lines between them, and have other simple buttons you click to apply various functions (like giving or removing items, XP, quest stages, etc).</p><p></p><p>If you are setting up a trap, there should be a bunch of presets with easy to apply options. So you might grab and plop down a Proximity or Activation trap. When you plop down a Proximity trap, a sidebar (or floating box connected to the trap) could have a slider that lets you change the size of the triggering region and a few buttons (circle, rectangle, line) that you click to choose. The sidebar or box would also have buttons for damage type, and for amount of damage, or special effects like teleporting to a location, applying a condition, etc. (The special effects may need to open a separate box when clicked to show buttons with the various options, but the rest should fit in the sidebar or floating box). You always use visual buttons, and either include text with them, or have text appear when you hover.</p><p></p><p>And the whole thing needs to be that easy. And it really <em>can</em> be. I think people are probably going to be skeptical because they haven't seen it done right before. (I'm even willing to put my money (or in this case, time) where my mouth is and do the job myself of being such a consultant (free to start and prove it's possible, though I wouldn't work free forever.))</p><p></p><p>But it is always going to struggle as long as the people making it are primarily making tooks for their own use. They need to be thinking "How can I make this tool so accessible and good at what it does that I put myself out of a job?" (which it wouldn't actually do) and be willing to put in the effort to actually listen to the consultants and do things in ways that are inefficient for themselves.</p><p></p><p>Obviously, most toolkits that are attached to a specific game aren't going to want to spend enough resources to do that. (Maybe making a paid tool would be a better option.) But even dedicated game design software doesn't really do what I'm talking about. Various software has bits and pieces of what is needed, but it really needs to all be put together; and it's probably going to work best if it is built to go with an actual game and popular RPG system (assuming an RPG design toolkit here).</p><p></p><p>So that's what the issue is. I've played around with these enough to see how they could be made much faster and easier so people could just basically think of the story they want to create and quickly make it happen, rather than having to spend enormous amounts of time messing with the software to figure out how to do it and painstakingly implement it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sword of Spirit, post: 9062045, member: 6677017"] Honestly (and I'm probably going to get strong disagreement on this), I think one of the biggest things holding back even the best game building software (like NWN) is too much reliance on the mindset and assumed skills of software design and coding. A couple examples (may not apply to all systems, but is typical): -Changes tend to be automatically applied, rather than relying on a save or apply feature. This assumes a higher level of competence than should be assumed, and is different from how most software for typical consumers operates. -Insufficiently accessible UI. They should have lots of drag and drop functionality, better organized menus, etc. What is really needed is an end user accessibility consultant with limited (though not zero) software design skills. They need someone to periodically look at it and give meaningful feedback on what is not as straightforward as it should be. The systems could also be designed to do more out of the box, without any scripting or involved scripting-like design. While AI might help with it, it shouldn't be necessary. For instance if you are setting up dialog options and other results of interactions with an NPC, it should pop up a visual flow chart where you can click to make new nodes, drag lines between them, and have other simple buttons you click to apply various functions (like giving or removing items, XP, quest stages, etc). If you are setting up a trap, there should be a bunch of presets with easy to apply options. So you might grab and plop down a Proximity or Activation trap. When you plop down a Proximity trap, a sidebar (or floating box connected to the trap) could have a slider that lets you change the size of the triggering region and a few buttons (circle, rectangle, line) that you click to choose. The sidebar or box would also have buttons for damage type, and for amount of damage, or special effects like teleporting to a location, applying a condition, etc. (The special effects may need to open a separate box when clicked to show buttons with the various options, but the rest should fit in the sidebar or floating box). You always use visual buttons, and either include text with them, or have text appear when you hover. And the whole thing needs to be that easy. And it really [I]can[/I] be. I think people are probably going to be skeptical because they haven't seen it done right before. (I'm even willing to put my money (or in this case, time) where my mouth is and do the job myself of being such a consultant (free to start and prove it's possible, though I wouldn't work free forever.)) But it is always going to struggle as long as the people making it are primarily making tooks for their own use. They need to be thinking "How can I make this tool so accessible and good at what it does that I put myself out of a job?" (which it wouldn't actually do) and be willing to put in the effort to actually listen to the consultants and do things in ways that are inefficient for themselves. Obviously, most toolkits that are attached to a specific game aren't going to want to spend enough resources to do that. (Maybe making a paid tool would be a better option.) But even dedicated game design software doesn't really do what I'm talking about. Various software has bits and pieces of what is needed, but it really needs to all be put together; and it's probably going to work best if it is built to go with an actual game and popular RPG system (assuming an RPG design toolkit here). So that's what the issue is. I've played around with these enough to see how they could be made much faster and easier so people could just basically think of the story they want to create and quickly make it happen, rather than having to spend enormous amounts of time messing with the software to figure out how to do it and painstakingly implement it. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Baldur's Gate 3 will now be releasing August 3rd on PC and September 6th on PS5, increased level cap, race & class details and more
Top