Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Baldur's Gate 3 will now be releasing August 3rd on PC and September 6th on PS5, increased level cap, race & class details and more
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9095313" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>I think this kind of true and kind of not, really, at level 12.</p><p></p><p>Two-weapon fighting is a very reliable way to use a bonus action to do an extra attack with a magical weapon. Towards the end of the game, that becomes increasingly important.</p><p></p><p>When you're in the process of getting to targets, sure, Jumping and Misty Step and so on are tremendous uses of your bonus action. When you're at your target, you might get one use out of a bonus action weapon-ability like Pommel Strike, but that's 1/short rest.</p><p></p><p>Berserkers can get an extra attack from a bonus action, or throw something and prone the target. But this causes a debuff to build up - minus 1 to hit for each time you use it during a combat, which can add up very fast.</p><p></p><p>Monks can use Unarmed Attack or Flurry of Blows, but unless you're at least level 6 in Monk (a big investment) you do less damage because in the late game a lot of creatures are resistant to non-magical damage.</p><p></p><p>It doesn't really restrict it though.</p><p></p><p>Pretty much no-one who picks up three levels of Thief for a bonus action cares much about the Sneak Attack damage, which is 1/turn and only 2d6 damage anyway. That's chump change compared to say, an extra Frenzied Strike with a 2H weapon from a Berserker barbarian.</p><p></p><p>The real issue with Two-weapon fighting is the same as in tabletop and has nothing to do with bonus actions - it's that you can't get Great Weapon Master, which increases your DPR so much (so long as you can get Advantage, and you probably can - I run around with Lae'zel wearing some early game gloves that give Advantage if 2 enemies are near her, and the near is fairly generous and very often effects on the enemies give it anyway) that it makes dual-wield kind of a joke. Tavern Brawler on a STR Monk is about even with that. On a throwing-centric character though? It's even more powerful. And Sharpshooter is straight-up broken, because you have the main benefit of GWM, except with ANY ranged weapon, including Hand Crossbows, which can be fired as a bonus action with TWF, and further, due to a bug, the -5 to hit penalty isn't applied to the offhand (PAM is not similarly bugged, in fact it applies the penalty but not the bonus of GWM).</p><p></p><p>GWM is also bugged in that it's applying to non-heavy weapons - anything wielded in two hands is counting (including Versatile weapons). I'd say this was an intentional change except that the in-game description does say it needs to be heavy.</p><p></p><p>But all of that looks like a pile of junk next to stuff involving Sorcerers and Warlocks, where you can both stack the same CHA mod repeatedly, over and over, and bugs with the way damage is applied means you get bonuses applying separately on the main damage, Hex damage, and stuff like Lightning Charge damage. Throwing is also bugged in a similar way, but I need to test to see if it's Tavern Brawler that does this, or throwing in general. My suspicion is that it's actually throwing in general. Tavern brawler's damage I think only applies once but is also bugged in that it bypasses absolutely all resistances and immunities, which allows you to do some silly things early on.</p><p></p><p>I suspect most of these bugs will get fixed, and there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth, because Eldritch Blast was similarly bugged in EA and got fixed (Agonizing Blast's CHA mod damage was firing off Hex).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 9095313, member: 18"] I think this kind of true and kind of not, really, at level 12. Two-weapon fighting is a very reliable way to use a bonus action to do an extra attack with a magical weapon. Towards the end of the game, that becomes increasingly important. When you're in the process of getting to targets, sure, Jumping and Misty Step and so on are tremendous uses of your bonus action. When you're at your target, you might get one use out of a bonus action weapon-ability like Pommel Strike, but that's 1/short rest. Berserkers can get an extra attack from a bonus action, or throw something and prone the target. But this causes a debuff to build up - minus 1 to hit for each time you use it during a combat, which can add up very fast. Monks can use Unarmed Attack or Flurry of Blows, but unless you're at least level 6 in Monk (a big investment) you do less damage because in the late game a lot of creatures are resistant to non-magical damage. It doesn't really restrict it though. Pretty much no-one who picks up three levels of Thief for a bonus action cares much about the Sneak Attack damage, which is 1/turn and only 2d6 damage anyway. That's chump change compared to say, an extra Frenzied Strike with a 2H weapon from a Berserker barbarian. The real issue with Two-weapon fighting is the same as in tabletop and has nothing to do with bonus actions - it's that you can't get Great Weapon Master, which increases your DPR so much (so long as you can get Advantage, and you probably can - I run around with Lae'zel wearing some early game gloves that give Advantage if 2 enemies are near her, and the near is fairly generous and very often effects on the enemies give it anyway) that it makes dual-wield kind of a joke. Tavern Brawler on a STR Monk is about even with that. On a throwing-centric character though? It's even more powerful. And Sharpshooter is straight-up broken, because you have the main benefit of GWM, except with ANY ranged weapon, including Hand Crossbows, which can be fired as a bonus action with TWF, and further, due to a bug, the -5 to hit penalty isn't applied to the offhand (PAM is not similarly bugged, in fact it applies the penalty but not the bonus of GWM). GWM is also bugged in that it's applying to non-heavy weapons - anything wielded in two hands is counting (including Versatile weapons). I'd say this was an intentional change except that the in-game description does say it needs to be heavy. But all of that looks like a pile of junk next to stuff involving Sorcerers and Warlocks, where you can both stack the same CHA mod repeatedly, over and over, and bugs with the way damage is applied means you get bonuses applying separately on the main damage, Hex damage, and stuff like Lightning Charge damage. Throwing is also bugged in a similar way, but I need to test to see if it's Tavern Brawler that does this, or throwing in general. My suspicion is that it's actually throwing in general. Tavern brawler's damage I think only applies once but is also bugged in that it bypasses absolutely all resistances and immunities, which allows you to do some silly things early on. I suspect most of these bugs will get fixed, and there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth, because Eldritch Blast was similarly bugged in EA and got fixed (Agonizing Blast's CHA mod damage was firing off Hex). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Baldur's Gate 3 will now be releasing August 3rd on PC and September 6th on PS5, increased level cap, race & class details and more
Top