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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Iron Sky" data-source="post: 4810530" data-attributes="member: 60965">Basically, the Balor took about three turns to get our Pally to bloodied (when the cleric healed him or, once the Cleric ran out of minor-action heals, he Laid on Hands).  3 turns x 4 heals = the approximate 12-14 (don't remember precisely) turns it took to take it down.  It wasn't the original 20 turns that I originally thought.As for standing toe-to-toe, the DM told us that he read "the Balor never reatreats and will fight until dead" to mean it didn't retreat at all, ever.  He used his first two APs in the first two rounds and so didn't have any by round 3-4 when the Balor might have realized that it was being effectively countered by some insignificant mortals.He said he was expecting us to run and hide down the side-tunnels the Grimlocks had been pouring out of since those tunnels were too small for the Balor to pursue.  Unfortunately, by the time the 3rd wave of minions rolled around, we figured we needed to collapse those tunnels to stop endless minion-waves from pouring out.  While the Warlock was teleport-ganking that last wave, the rogue, cleric, and my ranger were collapsing our escape routes...That would be the simple way of explaining it.  I tend to be mechanically explicit with my houserules since WotC's occasional lack in that area causes some serious dissention.  Also, on a crit the minions die and when I have minions that have vulnerability, damage of their vulnerability type also insta-kills them.Cool.  Yeah, sometimes these "too high" level encounters can make for awesome, intense gaming, especially if the players know they probably shouldn't be able to win the fight.  It pushes the party to their limits to find that they can do the "impossible."I agree.  If the Pally had missed with Certain Justice, the Cleric's Consecrated ground was disrupted, or my ranger hadn't been there for the fight, I don't see how we could have won.  It was all three together that made it doable.That is another good notice.  Our Cleric never noticed that apparently and I never thought to look.  It wouldn't have changed the outcome of the fight much, except we would have been using up more healing on the paladin on the risk that he gets dropped by the whip and a coup-de-grace from the sword while he's down...Yeah, this was probably just "the stars aligning" to make the fight winnable.  That's part of what made it exciting - we knew we shouldn't be able to take this thing on, but our party was built just right to do so.  I think, everything else being the same, we would still have won if our PCs were point buy, it would have taken a few more rounds.  The Pally still had a few Lay on Hands and a pile of healing pots.  As mentioned earlier, we're strictly point-buy in all 4e games from here on out.</blockquote>

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