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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kaledor" data-source="post: 2509819" data-attributes="member: 15360">This is the third time I've tried to write this... my computer keeps eating my posts :\I'd agree to the statment if we were just having a conversation about Tolkien's works. Eru/Ea is The Tolkien God - The Creator... But the question is how to translate it to D&D. The Valar are more powerful than the Solar in the MM. They have divine powers and grant powers to their "followers". And Tolkien *does* say himself that they were considered gods by Men. So if *I* were stating them up for D&D I'd give them Divine Ranks (course, that doesn't mean much, 'cause what's it matter what *I'd* do in *my* campaign <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ).  But, considering that they appear similar in power to the likes of the mythical greek and roman gods AND they have Divine D&D Ranks, I think it would be good to give the Valar similar power levels.Well first, it's not like Isildur is a "Regular Human". Being Dunedain's got to give him something special in D&D. If you don't like the celestial template idea, then I'd claim he should at least be Epic...  But then again... I'm arguing that Isildur is exceptionally powerful b/c he "killed" Sauron and Sauron has Divine Ranks, while you're using the same info to say that b/c Sauron was "killed" by Isildur they both must be weak. And really there's no solution to those two sides <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I guess it depends on the power level you prefer in your game. If I give Divine Ranks to the Valar and less to the Maiar, then Isildur better be something special too. If you make the Valar Angles/Celestials in the MM, then Isildur could just be a high-level fighter. As for Sauron NOT being a Balrog. This is interesting. I've always infered that he was base on a small passage in the Silmarillion. In the first mention of Balrogs, it says that Melkor corrupted the Maiar. They became his servants. Among these servants was a group called the Balrogs. The next sentence says that Sauron was the greatest of Melkor's named servants. Now, *I* have always read that to simply mean that the "Evil Maiar" are the Balrogs and the strongest was called Sauron. Since there's no real distinction made between individual power levels of the Maiar.  But I'm definitely interested to hear was you're certain that's not the case (honestly, that's not sarcasm or such). In either case, back to the thread, the Balrogs aren't peons compared to Sauron. They are corrupted Ainur as is Sauron. So, again in terms of D&D, I would stat them with similar (though lesser) powers.---And I'm gonna stop this post now so I don't lose it like its previous incarnations.</blockquote>

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