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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mmadsen" data-source="post: 297834" data-attributes="member: 1645">I started a thread on Monte's "Genius of D&D" essay awhile back.In his conclusion, Monte states: I think there's quite a bit to the idea that D&D arrived "firstest with the mostest" and has owned the niche it created ever since. For something like a game, particularly a complex game, finding other dedicated players who know the rules and want to play is a huge barrier to getting a game going. It's like plugging into a telephone or computer network; the biggest network will get bigger and bigger as more people join it rather than a "better" alternative with fewer members to connect to. On levels, Monte says: I won't deny that, but I do have to think there's more than one way to provide the "carrot on the stick". First, power-ups don't have to come in the form of levels. Picking up a Feat (Power Attack) and following a Feat chain (Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave) could easily serve the same purpose. So could Spells with chains of prereqs. Then there's the fact that many power-ups in D&D aren't associated with levels at all but with magic items acquired as loot. As many people gloat over their hoard as over their level. And then there are whole other genres of advancement: roleplaying rewards for having saved the princess, political power, etc. Owning a castle and ruling over the land could make quite a carrot. I think D&D's levels are a bit too granular -- the jump is too big -- but I can see the advantage of meaningful jumps over incremental improvements. Again though, a Feat or Spell certainly seems significant and impressive. The modern 3E notion of classes differs quite a bit from previous editions'. True. If everyone has a clearly defined role, each member of the group should get a chance to shine. Also true. Many alternatives to D&D didn't value simplicity, and that's a shame. Monte explicitly states that "The Genius of D&D" isn't his doing, that it "has to do with the early days of the game's development, and nothing to do with 3rd Edition." Oddly then, his defense of classes rests on 3rd Edition's flexible classes and multiclassing. D&D's reputation goes back to its 1st edition, and 1E clearly did have classes as straightjackets. Sure, you could make up a different backstory, but the difference between two 5th-level Fighters was negligible, and any two 5th-level Thieves had the same skills with the same emphases. Even in 3E, many, many classes are surprisingly inflexible. Couldn't every class have used Bonus Feats instead of set Special Ability progressions? One serious issue with classes (and levels), already mentioned, is the inflexibility. Another, especially now that we have easy access to multiclassing, is that the classes don't often encapsulate just related abilities. That warrior training grants extra Hit Points and an improved BAB surprises no one -- but any training grants extra Hit Points and improved BAB in D&D. High-level scribes and wizards fight dramatically better than their low-level counterparts, even if they aren't supposed to be great adventurers but just great scholars. At any rate, the problem isn't classes so much as how classes have been implemented so far. Monte seems to prop up a Straw Man in his defense of Hit Points:The number one complaint about Hit Points from the beginning of time has never been their lack of complexity -- although that has come up. The chief complaint with Hit Points has always been that they increase way too fast to the point where they don't match reality -- or even the fantastic "reality" of epic heroes. We all know the standard arguments: "How can my Fighter take a dozen sword blows?" "Oh, well, he's not actually hit just because he's, er, 'hit'" "Huh?" "Well, those hit points represent the fatigue of dodging blows and the minor scratches he takes as he rolls with attacks that would've skewered a 4-hit-point Commoner." "Then why does he have to heal these hit points over days and weeks? And why doesn't a healing potion heal those little scratches? Or a healing spell?" "Why don't you just play GURPS and leave us alone!" What is true is that Hit Points are an easy-to-use mechanic, and many alternative games made it their priority to be as complex as possible -- all in the mistaken belief that complexity equals realism equals fun. Monte complains about not hit-point damage systems: From my experience, other game systems try to make combat super-deadly, in an effort to distinguish themselves from D&D. What I find fascinating is Monte's support of Hit Points for scaling well, when, of course, they don't. Mundane attacks (1d8 swords and spears) just stop mattering at higher levels. We all know the pain of cornering a PC at sword point or surrounding him with crossbowmen only to either (a) institute rules that sidestep Hit Points to keep these attacks lethal, or (b) twist the rules/expectations of the game to make those crossbowmen Rogues with extra Sneak Attack damage, or (c) plead with the players to go along and pretend their characters are in fact threatened. D&D has a tendency to scale everything together. Hit Points, Armor Class, Attack Bonus, and Damage all increase in almost lock-step, and low damage for a high-level monster is almost always very, very high damage for anyone except high-level heroes. On Dungeons, Monte says: I think we can all agree that dungeon-style adventuring is simple, lighthearted fun. If I look back on my own early D&D days though, I can see that inexperienced DMs need help making the transition from mindless dungeons (a room full of Orcs, followed by a room full of Gnolls, followed by a room full of Bugbears) to sensible adventures. Also, it's a shame that the rules clearly expect dungeon adventuring. Wizards are balanced for dungeon adventures. Their spell lists are almost all combat spells, and the limitations of their magic (N spells per day) really aren't very limiting at all -- except in a dungeon.</blockquote>

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