Barbarian and Ranger combined

[ConcreteBuddha]

Credits go to Plane Sailing for the idea.


[EDIT] Deleted this attachment. This was the first version. The fifth post in this thread contains the current version. Also, note, this class replaces both the PHB Barbarian and Ranger. [/EDIT]

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Here is a comparison between the Barbarian, Ranger and Fighter and my revised Ranger/Barbarian:

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Also, I just plugged in this Ranger into this Class Generator, and it was right on the money. (I'm not holding too much faith with it, but at least it was balanced with the PHB Fighter, Barbarian and Ranger.)

www.mortality.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Files&file=index&do=showpic&pid=519&orderby=hitsD


The full point expenditure is in the attachment.

 

[Frostmarrow]

It looks balanced enough and it supports a wide selection of character archetypes. Most of the abilities are recycled from other classes. This is good as the abilities are well known and playtested but bad since it treads on the toes of the classes which already have it. A good choice if you have a DM willing to accept an experimental class as long as it won't revolutionize the game too much.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Thank you, Frostmarrow, for replying. Sorry I didn't comment. I had thought my idea had gotten lost in the shuffle (which it did for a while.)

A note, however: this class is supposed to replace the Barbarian and the Ranger, not accompany. (Therefore, the only class it may bother is the Druid. I don't think they'll really mind, however, since they're still the only one's who can wild shape and rain down flame strikes.)
.
.
.
Also, I have again revised the class from the above link to make Rage and Favored enemies again special abilities only known to the Ranger. They were too powerful as feats that anyone could choose. Here is the updated document:

 

[Jens]

Just so you know where I'm coming from: Imo, the Barbarian class should be scrapped and replaced by a Savage template (so that a Savage Fighter is about identical to a Barbarian). Also I think the PHB Ranger is poorly constructed and probably a bit on the weak side... but I don't know what to do about it except wait for july and see what WotC comes up with.

Now, on to your ranger:

In general I think it looks pretty good. There is reason to advance and most of the abilities seem appropriate for an outdoor type. But I'm not sure about the DR, it doesn't really match the image I've got.

Power: Let's compare with the Fighter (same BAB, HPs, saves):

+ 4 SPs instead of 2 and better class skills (+5)
+ uncanny dodge progression (+3)
+ woodland stride and trackless step as druid, fast movement as barbarian (+3)
+ damage reduction as barbarian (+2)
+ access to rage-related feats (+1)

- no medium/heavy armor or shields (are you sure you want to remove shield proficiency?) (-2)
- 6 feats (Track + 5 special abilities which *can* be feats) instead of 11 (-5)
- no access to weapon specialization (-1)

The number in parentheses are my quick-and-dirty valuations of the (dis)advantages, counted in feat-equivalents. I know the exact values are highly questionable, but bear with me. +14-8 = +6 is quite a bit, it is similar to slapping a bonus feat per 3 levels onto an existing class. In other words, I think your Ranger is too strong.

Suggestions:
- How about removing the DR and making it a special ability instead?
- How about making spellcasting (access to one level of spells at at time) a special ability?

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

First of all, thank you for your lengthy reply. It is always good to receive constructive criticism. Now let me attempt to defend my choices.

Just so you know where I'm coming from: Imo, the Barbarian class should be scrapped and replaced by a Savage template (so that a Savage Fighter is about identical to a Barbarian). Also I think the PHB Ranger is poorly constructed and probably a bit on the weak side... but I don't know what to do about it except wait for july and see what WotC comes up with.

I can see that being effective, however, I wood prefer to keep an "Outdoorsperson" class as a PHB class. (Templates tend to be ECL, and Rage is a balanced and flavorful ability.)

Now, on to your ranger:

In general I think it looks pretty good. There is reason to advance and most of the abilities seem appropriate for an outdoor type. But I'm not sure about the DR, it doesn't really match the image I've got.

My image of a Ranger is a tough, versatile warrior, who relies on endurance and speed to defeat foes. DR fits right in.

Power: Let's compare with the Fighter (same BAB, HPs, saves):

*snip numbers*

The number in parentheses are my quick-and-dirty valuations of the (dis)advantages, counted in feat-equivalents. I know the exact values are highly questionable, but bear with me. +14-8 = +6 is quite a bit, it is similar to slapping a bonus feat per 3 levels onto an existing class. In other words, I think your Ranger is too strong.

I don't agree with your numbers. If you look at the second and third posts of this thread, you will see what I came up with and my valuations of the class abilities. Also, there is a class calculator, which is horrible with spellcasting classes, is quite good with high BAB, non-spellcasting classes.

Suggestions:
- How about removing the DR and making it a special ability instead?

Good idea. However, I think that would actually make the class too weak, as per my calculations above.

- How about making spellcasting (access to one level of spells at at time) a special ability?

I intentionally took away spellcasting because I didn't want to further step on the toes of the Druid. I already took two of it's class abilities, I don't want to hand out Entangle as well. If people really want spellcasting, they can multiclass as Druid. (Which is what they do under the current rules already.)

 

[Stalker0]

Edit: Sorry, this was for a diff thread