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Barbarian Archetype: Path of the Hulk
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<blockquote data-quote="Hawk Diesel" data-source="post: 7259978" data-attributes="member: 59848"><p>I don't know if I necessarily like the slam doing 3d4 damage with double rage damage. It starts off with a raging hulk barbarian's unarmed attack as equal to a greataxe or greatsword (even understanding they would get an additional +1d4 damage), but then unarmed strike eventually outpaces them. My goal was to create an option where unarmed strike was a viable option on par with the heavier weapons, rather than to overshadow heavy weapons. Assuming 16 strength, a 3rd level raging hulk barbarian with the unarmed strike ability as I created it would deal 1d6 + 1d4 + 3 strength + 4 rage damage, making an average of 13. The same barbarian using a greataxe would deal 1d2 + 1d4 + 3 strength + 2 rage, making average damage of 14 damage. Average damage of unarmed strike is only one less than with a greataxe, but that attack will be more consistent while the greataxe might swing a bit more. Using your version, that same barbarian would deal 3d4 + 3 strength + 4 rage damage, averaging 14.5 damage. So not to bad at 3rd level, it's in the ballpark. But if we go to level 20 assuming maxed out strength of 24:</p><p></p><p>My version: 1d6 + 1d4 + 7 strength damage + 8 rage damage = average of 21</p><p></p><p>Greataxe Version: 1d12 + 1d4 + 7 strength + 4 rage = average of 20</p><p></p><p>Your version: 3d4 + 7 strength + 8 rage = average of 22.5 </p><p></p><p>So I did this calculation as I was writing my post out, and it seems the difference between mine and yours isn't as bad as I initially thought. I do think your version of the slam outpaces use of weapons such as the greataxe, while my intent was to more make them on a level playing ground. I also have some concern about starting a barbarian's unarmed strike out as better than a monk. Monk's should be the kings of unarmed strikes. It's bad enough that in my version a 3rd level barbarian gets an unarmed strike that a monk won't get until level 5. I can live with that knowing that the unarmed strike will never improve like a monk's does, and it puts unarmed strike as a relatively neutral attack option compared to using weapons and no shield. But a 2d4 slam attack means the barbarian gets an unarmed strike option at 3rd level that is better than any monk weaker than level 11. That doesn't sit well with me. It also creates complications if you have a multiclass hulk barbarian/monk. Would a barbarian monk improve the slam along with their unarmed strike? If so, how would it progress? How would unarmed strike and slam interact? In my version there are some issues there as well. But because mine is an unarmed strike and a damage within the (relatively) normal progression of the monk unarmed strike table, it is a little less messy. Still messy! Just a little less (from my perspective). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think we need to make them +1 magic weapons. Just magical without a bonus for the purpose of resistance. Otherwise, we once more risk stepping on the toes of the monk and improving over the monk, since their unarmed strikes only become magical rather than +1 magic weapons.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is an interesting idea. It definitely fits as a ribbon ability within the power level of other level 10 barbarian class features. It also goes well with the jump ability.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hawk Diesel, post: 7259978, member: 59848"] I don't know if I necessarily like the slam doing 3d4 damage with double rage damage. It starts off with a raging hulk barbarian's unarmed attack as equal to a greataxe or greatsword (even understanding they would get an additional +1d4 damage), but then unarmed strike eventually outpaces them. My goal was to create an option where unarmed strike was a viable option on par with the heavier weapons, rather than to overshadow heavy weapons. Assuming 16 strength, a 3rd level raging hulk barbarian with the unarmed strike ability as I created it would deal 1d6 + 1d4 + 3 strength + 4 rage damage, making an average of 13. The same barbarian using a greataxe would deal 1d2 + 1d4 + 3 strength + 2 rage, making average damage of 14 damage. Average damage of unarmed strike is only one less than with a greataxe, but that attack will be more consistent while the greataxe might swing a bit more. Using your version, that same barbarian would deal 3d4 + 3 strength + 4 rage damage, averaging 14.5 damage. So not to bad at 3rd level, it's in the ballpark. But if we go to level 20 assuming maxed out strength of 24: My version: 1d6 + 1d4 + 7 strength damage + 8 rage damage = average of 21 Greataxe Version: 1d12 + 1d4 + 7 strength + 4 rage = average of 20 Your version: 3d4 + 7 strength + 8 rage = average of 22.5 So I did this calculation as I was writing my post out, and it seems the difference between mine and yours isn't as bad as I initially thought. I do think your version of the slam outpaces use of weapons such as the greataxe, while my intent was to more make them on a level playing ground. I also have some concern about starting a barbarian's unarmed strike out as better than a monk. Monk's should be the kings of unarmed strikes. It's bad enough that in my version a 3rd level barbarian gets an unarmed strike that a monk won't get until level 5. I can live with that knowing that the unarmed strike will never improve like a monk's does, and it puts unarmed strike as a relatively neutral attack option compared to using weapons and no shield. But a 2d4 slam attack means the barbarian gets an unarmed strike option at 3rd level that is better than any monk weaker than level 11. That doesn't sit well with me. It also creates complications if you have a multiclass hulk barbarian/monk. Would a barbarian monk improve the slam along with their unarmed strike? If so, how would it progress? How would unarmed strike and slam interact? In my version there are some issues there as well. But because mine is an unarmed strike and a damage within the (relatively) normal progression of the monk unarmed strike table, it is a little less messy. Still messy! Just a little less (from my perspective). I don't think we need to make them +1 magic weapons. Just magical without a bonus for the purpose of resistance. Otherwise, we once more risk stepping on the toes of the monk and improving over the monk, since their unarmed strikes only become magical rather than +1 magic weapons. This is an interesting idea. It definitely fits as a ribbon ability within the power level of other level 10 barbarian class features. It also goes well with the jump ability. [/QUOTE]
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