Barbarian Rage and Undead

[Balfin]

Hi Everybody! This is my first post here, so I'm sure if this has been discussed before, but...

Can Vampires (or other undead) use the barbarian rage ability without a Con score.

I figured they could, but without fatigue and it was last a number of rounds equal to their Cha modifier. They would only be able to attack and drink blood in a rage.

One friend of mine says they can't, they other says they would use their old Con score.

Is there an official ruling on this?

Thanks.

 

[Crothian]

I haven't seen anything official. I use the rage lasts 3+cha modifier. Also, since they have no con bonus that part of the rage is ignored so you won't get any bonus HPs.

 

[Xarlen]

Yep. They can rage, and as Crothian suggests, I'd go for 3+Cha. Psionic liches use Cha as their stat for Con when it comes to their powers, so I see no problem with using that otherwise.

Heck, you might use Cha for any Spell Likes or SA DCs that involve fort saves.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I don't think I'd use Cha -- it doesn't fit, and the rule isn't quite intended for it -- but I'd allow the rage. Even undead have Con modifiers.

 

[Xarlen]

0 has no modifer.

Sure it fits. Undead are created by their link to the Negative Plane. Thus, with a higher cha, they can use their force of personality to strenghten that bond with the Negative Plain, allowing them to rage.

 

[Grazzt]

I don't think I'd use Cha -- it doesn't fit, and the rule isn't quite intended for it -- but I'd allow the rage. Even undead have Con modifiers.

I agree it doesn't fit per se, but according to Dragon 276, in the monster creation article: "Also use Charisma for any DC that normally would be based on an ability score the creature does not have. For example, undead creatures have no Constitution scores, so any poison attacks they have would use Charisma to determine the DC."

I'd just use Charisma. It doesn't really seem to fit, but if ya use the suggestion/rule above them I guess undead raging is based on Cha.

 

[CRGreathouse]

0 has no modifer.

The modifier for 0 is -5. The modifier for a nonability is +0.