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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hafrogman" data-source="post: 6137662" data-attributes="member: 8858">I personally think that in this case (as in some others), narrowing an existing class to become a sub-class of another will lose some of what makes those mechanics work.  Instead, if the barbarian is too narrow to be its own class, we should broaden it until it can encompass more.  Admittedly, this exacerbates the problem of the name itself.  I cannot justify the name, but find that I honestly don't care that much.  So I will continue to refer to the class as Barbarian even it makes no sense.So what is it to be a barbarian if it's not to be an uncivilized warrior, and it's not just a battle rager?  I think if we have room for paladins and rangers we can also have room for a class that's like a fighter, but not.  A fighter is the best trained combatant with options, and tactics and the flexibility to survive and triumph in combat.  A barbarian is a warrior who relies on something else to fuel them.Traditionally, this is ANGER!  But perhaps there's room for a wider definition.In addition to berzerkers we could have something like whirling dervishes or sword dancers and singers, warriors who use music or rhythm, or a devotion to power a rage-like state.  They must maintain their trance or rage or focus, lest they drop out of it and lose their grip on what fuels them.One of the things I like best about the current incarnation of the barbarian class, is that despite what the description of the class says, you can throw all of it out and use the mechanics to build something else.  If I wasn't DMing the only D&D5 campaign I'm in, I'd be running a Lawful Neutral monk/swordsman type who uses meditation and intense focus (along with the void and flame lifted straight from the Wheel of Time) to achieve a state of oneness with his blade.  And all I'd need would be the barbarian class, because they didn't insist they the class be non-lawful.As a general design philosophy, I think it's okay for there to be a small overlap between classes.  You might build a holy warrior using paladin or a fighter/cleric or just a fighter with the priest background.  But each has their own degrees of difference and flavor.  I like the barbarian as its own class.  Just because we CAN consume something within fighter doesn't mean we SHOULD.</blockquote>

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