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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Barbarians: Why not multiclass?
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6752074" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>Thank you Hemlock, for actually discussing the OPs issue. </p><p></p><p>It struck me how very few replies that actually provided a relevant answer, instead of setting up their own premisses and going off to discuss those instead. </p><p></p><p>And since that includes me too, let me give you my answer, an answer so few seem to be willing to concede :-/</p><p></p><p>It is "no, in a game with your parameters, there aren't any particular reasons to stay in the Barbarian class". </p><p></p><p>People dismiss lots of pacing concerns all the time just spouting off the absurd "if you're not having 6-8 encounters and 2 short rests a day, I can't help you" propaganda. But in reality, it's damned hard to force this pacing on the players, and the game system itself gives you as a DM next to no enforcement tools to help you.</p><p></p><p>Having a player be perfectly content with 3 rages a day seems perfectly understandable to me.</p><p></p><p>Having a player eagerly looking at the juicy first levels of almost every class in the PHB seems perfectly understandable to me. </p><p></p><p>What your player needs, then, is mainly two things:</p><p>1) it helps to possess an above-average level of system mastery. Multiclassing properly (as in "getting more power out of it") is not trivial in 5E.</p><p>2) it helps to have above-average stats. To say this plainly: it helps if you roll stats randomly and if you are lucky in that roll.</p><p></p><p>This is because 5E has a much better multiclass balance than previous editions. First off, you need to meet the ability minimums for both the class you're MCing out of, and the class you're MCing in to. Then you need to make sure you don't unneccessarily delay your second attack much beyond level 5. You don't want to upset the rythm of getting ASIs or feats every four levels. Etc. </p><p></p><p>(The main secret sauce? It is "no prestige classes yet". By prestige classes I don't primarily mean classes you can't take until after 1st level, which seems to be on the table for 5e too. I primarily mean classes that allow you to get the main benefits of your normal class in addition to whatever benefits the prestige class gives you. Such as being allowed to fully progress as a wizard spellcaster. Not just combine two spellcasting classes per the regular 5e MC rules, but to actually progress as a wizard for spell level and slot purposes even though you aren't levelling in that class. This 3e/d20 allowed and it was gloriously broken) </p><p></p><p>It can be done, but it isn't trivial. </p><p></p><p>And that's mainly your answer. Many people would rather stay in their class, knowing that gives them a decent-enough twenty-level build. If MC is allowed at all!</p><p></p><p>But if your player (and his character's stats) feels up to the task, then yes, multiclassing can and will get him an extra oomph, especially since he doesn't seem to plan to use the main scaling-with-class-level feature of his chosen class (number of rages).</p><p></p><p>Of course, if you and he haven't played a 5e campaign to high levels yet, the risk of underestimating the need for more rages is acute. </p><p></p><p>Pacing at low levels change quite dramatically at higher levels - not because you the DM "fix" the encounter structure, but because different tiers play differently. </p><p></p><p>I DMd a campaign that went to level 8 or thereabouts, and my Barb player felt that suddenly the rages started to go by much faster than before. </p><p></p><p>So go ahead, but don't be surprised if the next time your player chooses a Barbarian, he will stay in the class for much longer! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 6752074, member: 12731"] Thank you Hemlock, for actually discussing the OPs issue. It struck me how very few replies that actually provided a relevant answer, instead of setting up their own premisses and going off to discuss those instead. And since that includes me too, let me give you my answer, an answer so few seem to be willing to concede :-/ It is "no, in a game with your parameters, there aren't any particular reasons to stay in the Barbarian class". People dismiss lots of pacing concerns all the time just spouting off the absurd "if you're not having 6-8 encounters and 2 short rests a day, I can't help you" propaganda. But in reality, it's damned hard to force this pacing on the players, and the game system itself gives you as a DM next to no enforcement tools to help you. Having a player be perfectly content with 3 rages a day seems perfectly understandable to me. Having a player eagerly looking at the juicy first levels of almost every class in the PHB seems perfectly understandable to me. What your player needs, then, is mainly two things: 1) it helps to possess an above-average level of system mastery. Multiclassing properly (as in "getting more power out of it") is not trivial in 5E. 2) it helps to have above-average stats. To say this plainly: it helps if you roll stats randomly and if you are lucky in that roll. This is because 5E has a much better multiclass balance than previous editions. First off, you need to meet the ability minimums for both the class you're MCing out of, and the class you're MCing in to. Then you need to make sure you don't unneccessarily delay your second attack much beyond level 5. You don't want to upset the rythm of getting ASIs or feats every four levels. Etc. (The main secret sauce? It is "no prestige classes yet". By prestige classes I don't primarily mean classes you can't take until after 1st level, which seems to be on the table for 5e too. I primarily mean classes that allow you to get the main benefits of your normal class in addition to whatever benefits the prestige class gives you. Such as being allowed to fully progress as a wizard spellcaster. Not just combine two spellcasting classes per the regular 5e MC rules, but to actually progress as a wizard for spell level and slot purposes even though you aren't levelling in that class. This 3e/d20 allowed and it was gloriously broken) It can be done, but it isn't trivial. And that's mainly your answer. Many people would rather stay in their class, knowing that gives them a decent-enough twenty-level build. If MC is allowed at all! But if your player (and his character's stats) feels up to the task, then yes, multiclassing can and will get him an extra oomph, especially since he doesn't seem to plan to use the main scaling-with-class-level feature of his chosen class (number of rages). Of course, if you and he haven't played a 5e campaign to high levels yet, the risk of underestimating the need for more rages is acute. Pacing at low levels change quite dramatically at higher levels - not because you the DM "fix" the encounter structure, but because different tiers play differently. I DMd a campaign that went to level 8 or thereabouts, and my Barb player felt that suddenly the rages started to go by much faster than before. So go ahead, but don't be surprised if the next time your player chooses a Barbarian, he will stay in the class for much longer! :) [/QUOTE]
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