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<blockquote data-quote="Mephista" data-source="post: 6589435" data-attributes="member: 6786252">Eh... The devs have said its a grey area.&nbsp;&nbsp; Passive perception?&nbsp; The old 3e Spot skill?&nbsp; Absolutely going Perception Wisdom.&nbsp;&nbsp; Actively searching for traps based on clues you see in the environment?&nbsp;&nbsp; That's actually falling under Investigation's stick- anything where you're looking for clues to something.&nbsp;&nbsp; Its not clear cut, so its deliberately up to individual GMs, but I wouldn't say anything is generally supposed to be one or the other.EDIT - oh, and for the GM?&nbsp;&nbsp; I personally think of the bard as the core &quot;Beguiler&quot; style class, so I'm all for it.&nbsp; The thing with wizards is that they've basically become the jack-of-all-spell-trades at once, overlapping with pretty much the warlock, sorcerer, bard, and even bits of the druid and cleric.&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't see a lot of functional difference between an Illusion/Enchanter wizard and a bard.The big difference is the INT and CHA focus.&nbsp; &nbsp; I actually personally feel that Intelligence has more uses than Charisma.&nbsp; Yes, Charisma is the key skill for Deception, and there's the whole social-rogue thing.&nbsp;&nbsp; But that's actually just one style of rogue, not all of them.&nbsp;&nbsp; Not every rogue wants or needs to be social.&nbsp; The treasure-hunter archetype has fun with History checks to find and recall designs of buildings and where to locate treasure.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mephista, post: 6589435, member: 6786252"] Eh... The devs have said its a grey area. Passive perception? The old 3e Spot skill? Absolutely going Perception Wisdom. Actively searching for traps based on clues you see in the environment? That's actually falling under Investigation's stick- anything where you're looking for clues to something. Its not clear cut, so its deliberately up to individual GMs, but I wouldn't say anything is generally supposed to be one or the other. EDIT - oh, and for the GM? I personally think of the bard as the core "Beguiler" style class, so I'm all for it. The thing with wizards is that they've basically become the jack-of-all-spell-trades at once, overlapping with pretty much the warlock, sorcerer, bard, and even bits of the druid and cleric. I don't see a lot of functional difference between an Illusion/Enchanter wizard and a bard. The big difference is the INT and CHA focus. I actually personally feel that Intelligence has more uses than Charisma. Yes, Charisma is the key skill for Deception, and there's the whole social-rogue thing. But that's actually just one style of rogue, not all of them. Not every rogue wants or needs to be social. The treasure-hunter archetype has fun with History checks to find and recall designs of buildings and where to locate treasure. [/QUOTE]

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