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<blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 2056058" data-attributes="member: 29014"><p>Oh, and to The Souljourner:&nbsp; I agree with your analysis of bard spells and their low spells/day and spells/known, but I disagree somewhat with the deemphasis of Charisma.&nbsp; Now, I'm not saying it should be the Bard's sole focus like Intelligence for a Wizard.&nbsp; In addition to aiding the social skills, it is highly important for the Bard to have more of those precious spells/day.&nbsp; Moreover, it is almost vital that the Bard have an enhanced Charisma of 12 by level 2, 14 by level 4, 16 by level 7, 18 by level 10, 20 by level 13, and 22 by level 16.&nbsp; This ensures that they get to cast 1 of their highest level spell at that level, as otherwise they would get 0.&nbsp; The easiest way to go about this is to put a starting 16 in Charisma and buy a +4 Cloak of Charisma by level 10 and upgrade to +6 by level 16.&nbsp; That way you can put all your stat-raises into something other than Charisma if you need them.&nbsp; If you try the reverse (that is, start with 14 Charisma and raise it up), you won't reach 16 by level 7 unless your DM is overgenerous on treasure (based on Table 5-1), or you waste resources on a +2 Cloak of Charisma (starting with 15 and stat-raising will work fine though, and it may be the most efficient use of Stat Points).&nbsp; I know that a Bard is only a secondary spellcaster, but that makes getting the spells soon even more crucial.&nbsp; As a wizard, if I were lazy and there were a choice, I'm supposedly not getting hosed too badly if I miss out on new spells for a level (at least in theory I'm not, since that happens to the sorcerer), but the level 7 Bard is 1 whole spell level behind everyone else even if she does have 16 Charisma, so she is always playing a bit of catch-up.&nbsp; I know that comparing wizards to bards doesn't work perfectly here since sorcerers are a primary spellcaster, but imagine there was an ability that let sorcerers get their next level of spells one level sooner (but only 1 spell per day).&nbsp; How much would you be willing to pay for that ability?&nbsp; Now a bard would probably be willing to pay less for this, but a few stat points that also raise your DCs and most of your favourite skills?&nbsp; That's a bargain.</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="Rystil Arden, post: 2056058, member: 29014"] Oh, and to The Souljourner: I agree with your analysis of bard spells and their low spells/day and spells/known, but I disagree somewhat with the deemphasis of Charisma. Now, I'm not saying it should be the Bard's sole focus like Intelligence for a Wizard. In addition to aiding the social skills, it is highly important for the Bard to have more of those precious spells/day. Moreover, it is almost vital that the Bard have an enhanced Charisma of 12 by level 2, 14 by level 4, 16 by level 7, 18 by level 10, 20 by level 13, and 22 by level 16. This ensures that they get to cast 1 of their highest level spell at that level, as otherwise they would get 0. The easiest way to go about this is to put a starting 16 in Charisma and buy a +4 Cloak of Charisma by level 10 and upgrade to +6 by level 16. That way you can put all your stat-raises into something other than Charisma if you need them. If you try the reverse (that is, start with 14 Charisma and raise it up), you won't reach 16 by level 7 unless your DM is overgenerous on treasure (based on Table 5-1), or you waste resources on a +2 Cloak of Charisma (starting with 15 and stat-raising will work fine though, and it may be the most efficient use of Stat Points). I know that a Bard is only a secondary spellcaster, but that makes getting the spells soon even more crucial. As a wizard, if I were lazy and there were a choice, I'm supposedly not getting hosed too badly if I miss out on new spells for a level (at least in theory I'm not, since that happens to the sorcerer), but the level 7 Bard is 1 whole spell level behind everyone else even if she does have 16 Charisma, so she is always playing a bit of catch-up. I know that comparing wizards to bards doesn't work perfectly here since sorcerers are a primary spellcaster, but imagine there was an ability that let sorcerers get their next level of spells one level sooner (but only 1 spell per day). How much would you be willing to pay for that ability? Now a bard would probably be willing to pay less for this, but a few stat points that also raise your DCs and most of your favourite skills? That's a bargain. [/QUOTE]

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