Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9504310" data-attributes="member: 18">I feel like if we rate classes based on how you could screw up with them, rather than using them in an at least semi-optimal, sensible way, we're rating them in a different way to the way we rated 2014 classes. Like, Paladins are really going to have to be low-tier on that basis, because using the wrong smite in 2024 is basically encouraged, costs a lot, and really doesn't help you. Likewise the Rogue's Cunning Strike should basically be seen as a potential negative factor rather than a positive one on that basis, because it has several options you could use really badly, just lowering your DPR for no real gain. This is only going to be compounded by a myriad of subclass features across countless subclasses which could make your PC worse if you use them aggressively.So I think if we go with &quot;You might be a dummy and pursue a suboptimal approach!&quot; is going to make your analysis here way, way harder. Whereas if you only look at a subclass being played relatively optimally, it'll be pretty straightforward.Anyone playing a Dance Bard minimally optimally is going to make it at least a B. But there are subclasses out there, where, even optimal play may well be a C or D. Just not Bard subclasses.I feel like that would be a hard argument to make convincingly, given Tandem Footwork exists. And I don't think Swords Bards were particularly bad because again, they were still Bards - full casters with a decent spell list, a useful primary stat, and a ton of baseline utility.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 9504310, member: 18"] I feel like if we rate classes based on how you could screw up with them, rather than using them in an at least semi-optimal, sensible way, we're rating them in a different way to the way we rated 2014 classes. Like, Paladins are really going to have to be low-tier on that basis, because using the wrong smite in 2024 is basically encouraged, costs a lot, and really doesn't help you. Likewise the Rogue's Cunning Strike should basically be seen as a potential negative factor rather than a positive one on that basis, because it has several options you could use really badly, just lowering your DPR for no real gain. This is only going to be compounded by a myriad of subclass features across countless subclasses which could make your PC worse if you use them aggressively. So I think if we go with "You might be a dummy and pursue a suboptimal approach!" is going to make your analysis here way, way harder. Whereas if you only look at a subclass being played relatively optimally, it'll be pretty straightforward. Anyone playing a Dance Bard minimally optimally is going to make it at least a B. But there are subclasses out there, where, even optimal play may well be a C or D. Just not Bard subclasses. I feel like that would be a hard argument to make convincingly, given Tandem Footwork exists. And I don't think Swords Bards were particularly bad because again, they were still Bards - full casters with a decent spell list, a useful primary stat, and a ton of baseline utility. [/QUOTE]

Verification