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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 9504873" data-attributes="member: 6716779">College of Valor.  Well just going to state up front the Valor Bard is an S* tier archetype. The Asterix I will go into below. I don't think I need to go through how it's class features interact with 2-4 attacks or more a round combined with Conjure Minor Elementals. The only debate really is the when and how it becomes S tier. It's abilities. Level 3Combat Inspiration.  Your bard dice can buff an allies attack rolls or debuff an opponents. I have seen this ability in use and it very rapidly becomes a shield effect with option to buff an attack. Indirectly  nerfed with the removal of the -5/+10 feats. Overall still a very good ability. Martial Training Weapons and armor. AC 17-19 or potentially higher and nartial weapons. Very good by itself and better than the dance bards ability in most situations (higher level and rolled stats change that).  Extra Attack  As written on the can. Also you can cast a cantrip in place of one of those attack. For purists this means true strike in effect but can also include Green Flame Blade or Booming Blade. I will assume 2014 material is available.Level 14 Battle Magic.  Cast a spell extra attack. In effect a 3rd attack a round. If you know what you're doing it's a 4th attack a round.  So the Valor bards class features plus Conjure Minor elements lends itself to lots of damage. There's lots of hypothetical builds but at level 10 it's 4d8 damage using a 5th level spell slot. Per attack. So somewhere between level 10 and 14 the class becomes S tier even with just the PHB single class only. We can nitpick when that happens.  However at level 7 a Valor Bard can cast fount of moonlight. It's still fairly absurd in melee and combines with true strike or the 2014 cantrips. I think the class still hits S tier around level 7 espicially with rolled stats and 2014 material. The other reality is multiclasing. Not optional in 2014. This feeds into various dips and builds often well in excess of level 10. Eg Paladin 6/Bard ten or Paladin 2/Warlock 2/Bard 10. Most of these builds are hypothetical and don't count issues like keeping CME running. There's also MAD to consider.  Heavy weapons are probably out due to the 13 strength requirement even a warlock dip doesn't fix. However a single fighter level MCing into Bard is playable from level 1. That 1 level dip gives you proficiency in constitution saves, a weapon style feat and 2 weapon masteries being the important ones. Dexterity vs Charisma is also debatable but 16 dex and Charisma and 14 con is probably  the way to go.  Is it fair considering multiclassing? That one level dip isn't theoretical and it's only a dip. Without it the class is still breaking the game but it's abilities are good from 3+ even if you only use the PHB. It also hits S tier early enough to matter vs various theory craft builds. I'm sure someone will nitpick this. Either way it's playable from level one and good from level 3. Basically it's S tier the when and how is debatable.</blockquote>

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