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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8787557" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>This is a silly position.</p><p></p><p>Lore means knowledge, and this Bard gets more mandatory knowledge than the previous iteration of the Lore Bard, thanks to the fixed skills.</p><p></p><p>It also gets more Magical Secrets than the previous Lore Bard, because of the changes to Magical Secrets. In 5E, a Lore Bards know 3 spells that are "magical secrets", and they can very rarely be changed (only on level up and if using Tasha's, IIRC, something close to that). In 1D&D, a Lore Bard (and indeed all Bards), knows 4 spells that are "magical secrets", AND can change them every day!</p><p></p><p>It's a huge increase in ability from a current Lore Bard. You seem to be confused and think it's a decrease? It's a massive upgrade. Gigantic.</p><p></p><p>What you seem to be demanding is the upgrade is even more gigantic? Yes? Is that right? You want to go from 3 basically fixed spells to 6 change-every-day spells? 4 change-every-day isn't good enough?</p><p></p><p>If you were making an argument that Magical Secrets is delayed too late in a Bard's career (i.e. level 11) because of this, you'd be in a much better position, but you aren't.</p><p></p><p>Lore Bards get some extremely strong abilities, as [USER=6801228]@Chaosmancer[/USER] has outlined. It those aren't good enough for you to consider the subclass, well, that's damn silly. We can only compare the 1D&D Lore Bard to 5E subclasses, but right now? It's still the #1 subclass for a Bard in terms of pure mechanic "oomph". Might that change? Sure. It might. Valor Bards might stop being meh and Blades might stop being absolutely terrible, for example. But there's no reason to believe that. In fact, unless they get some further buffs, Blades are going to be even further behind with the 1D&D Bard layout.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8787557, member: 18"] This is a silly position. Lore means knowledge, and this Bard gets more mandatory knowledge than the previous iteration of the Lore Bard, thanks to the fixed skills. It also gets more Magical Secrets than the previous Lore Bard, because of the changes to Magical Secrets. In 5E, a Lore Bards know 3 spells that are "magical secrets", and they can very rarely be changed (only on level up and if using Tasha's, IIRC, something close to that). In 1D&D, a Lore Bard (and indeed all Bards), knows 4 spells that are "magical secrets", AND can change them every day! It's a huge increase in ability from a current Lore Bard. You seem to be confused and think it's a decrease? It's a massive upgrade. Gigantic. What you seem to be demanding is the upgrade is even more gigantic? Yes? Is that right? You want to go from 3 basically fixed spells to 6 change-every-day spells? 4 change-every-day isn't good enough? If you were making an argument that Magical Secrets is delayed too late in a Bard's career (i.e. level 11) because of this, you'd be in a much better position, but you aren't. Lore Bards get some extremely strong abilities, as [USER=6801228]@Chaosmancer[/USER] has outlined. It those aren't good enough for you to consider the subclass, well, that's damn silly. We can only compare the 1D&D Lore Bard to 5E subclasses, but right now? It's still the #1 subclass for a Bard in terms of pure mechanic "oomph". Might that change? Sure. It might. Valor Bards might stop being meh and Blades might stop being absolutely terrible, for example. But there's no reason to believe that. In fact, unless they get some further buffs, Blades are going to be even further behind with the 1D&D Bard layout. [/QUOTE]
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