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<blockquote data-quote="fuindordm" data-source="post: 8788196" data-attributes="member: 5435"><p>This post is mostly about bardic magic.</p><p></p><p><strong>Bards (and rangers) preparing spells: </strong></p><p>From a lore perspective I would prefer only Wizards, Clerics, and Druids to have access to the full spell list and be able to potentially prepare any spell on that list. I think it would also make sense for all three to have "books" or at least be limited to spells that they have found/researched. But at the same time, I understand that we don't want to punish new players for making unusual or suboptimal choices. </p><p></p><p>I think a good compromise would be to divide each spell list into common spells and rare spells, so that players choosing what to prepare do so from a smaller list. </p><p></p><p><strong>Bard schools of magic:</strong></p><p>With only 8 choices and the self-imposed requirement to attach each spell to one and only one school, schools of magic are a blunt instrument for reproducing the lore of a class. It is interesting that the thunder/sonic spells (well, Thunderwave and Shatter) have moved to Transmutation--perhaps just so the Bard can learn them? But other spells, such as Gaseous Form and Reverse Gravity, seem completely unrelated to any fictional or mythological example of a bard. Magic Armor on the other hand would be a very common spell for a viking skald. Using schools to construct spell lists sounds like a good idea on paper but when you try it in practice it just doesn't work. It didn't work well for clerics in 2nd edition either. </p><p></p><p>If the design goal is to give bards only "bardic" spells, then just give them their own spell list because Bard magic is kind of a unique mixture of arcane and divine. 1DD needs to add a psionic spell list anyway, so it might as well add a bard list as well. </p><p></p><p>Another option would be to give some spells TWO schools instead of one and require a class to have access to both schools to prepare it. Like the common/rare split mentioned above, this mechanic would allow the designers to flag certain spells as only available to full casters. For example, in the Arcane list Contingency is labeled Abjuration (why?) but by labeling it as Divination/Abjuration you could exclude it from bards.</p><p></p><p><strong>Magical secrets:</strong></p><p>Incredible--if I am reading the ability right, as a player I can choose Divine and then every long rest I can prepare 2 spells from the whole Divine spell list? This is just far too powerful--at 15th level the bard can prepare almost any spell in the game. When they can cast 9th level spells they have access to the most powerful magic of the clerics, wizards, and druids. </p><p></p><p>As with spell preparation, we see here the tendency to shy away from forcing players to make a choice for their character. Is asking them to choose 2 specific spells too restrictive? Are we worried that they will regret their choice and their feelings will be hurt? Not punishing players for "bad choices" is laudable, but niche protection is also an important design goal.</p><p></p><p>I would prefer for this ability to come sooner (6th level seems fine) and for the bard to choose to add any 2 spells up to 3rd level to the set of spells they can prepare. Same for additional secrets--move it earlier and limit the choice to their current maximum spell level. It is already an very attractive class ability that way, and the lore bard never gets to access the high-level spells of other classes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="fuindordm, post: 8788196, member: 5435"] This post is mostly about bardic magic. [B]Bards (and rangers) preparing spells: [/B] From a lore perspective I would prefer only Wizards, Clerics, and Druids to have access to the full spell list and be able to potentially prepare any spell on that list. I think it would also make sense for all three to have "books" or at least be limited to spells that they have found/researched. But at the same time, I understand that we don't want to punish new players for making unusual or suboptimal choices. I think a good compromise would be to divide each spell list into common spells and rare spells, so that players choosing what to prepare do so from a smaller list. [B]Bard schools of magic:[/B] With only 8 choices and the self-imposed requirement to attach each spell to one and only one school, schools of magic are a blunt instrument for reproducing the lore of a class. It is interesting that the thunder/sonic spells (well, Thunderwave and Shatter) have moved to Transmutation--perhaps just so the Bard can learn them? But other spells, such as Gaseous Form and Reverse Gravity, seem completely unrelated to any fictional or mythological example of a bard. Magic Armor on the other hand would be a very common spell for a viking skald. Using schools to construct spell lists sounds like a good idea on paper but when you try it in practice it just doesn't work. It didn't work well for clerics in 2nd edition either. If the design goal is to give bards only "bardic" spells, then just give them their own spell list because Bard magic is kind of a unique mixture of arcane and divine. 1DD needs to add a psionic spell list anyway, so it might as well add a bard list as well. Another option would be to give some spells TWO schools instead of one and require a class to have access to both schools to prepare it. Like the common/rare split mentioned above, this mechanic would allow the designers to flag certain spells as only available to full casters. For example, in the Arcane list Contingency is labeled Abjuration (why?) but by labeling it as Divination/Abjuration you could exclude it from bards. [B]Magical secrets:[/B] Incredible--if I am reading the ability right, as a player I can choose Divine and then every long rest I can prepare 2 spells from the whole Divine spell list? This is just far too powerful--at 15th level the bard can prepare almost any spell in the game. When they can cast 9th level spells they have access to the most powerful magic of the clerics, wizards, and druids. As with spell preparation, we see here the tendency to shy away from forcing players to make a choice for their character. Is asking them to choose 2 specific spells too restrictive? Are we worried that they will regret their choice and their feelings will be hurt? Not punishing players for "bad choices" is laudable, but niche protection is also an important design goal. I would prefer for this ability to come sooner (6th level seems fine) and for the bard to choose to add any 2 spells up to 3rd level to the set of spells they can prepare. Same for additional secrets--move it earlier and limit the choice to their current maximum spell level. It is already an very attractive class ability that way, and the lore bard never gets to access the high-level spells of other classes. [/QUOTE]
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