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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Apok" data-source="post: 952960" data-attributes="member: 1969">Better in skills?  Yes.  Abso-fraggin'-lutely.  Agree 100%.  No arguments here.  The Bard is second only to the Rogue in terms of points and class skill selection.  However, on the fact that Bards are on par with Clerics, I have a minor point of contention.  Lets do a quick comarison, shall we?Raw Combat AbilityEqual BAB.  The Bard does have a better weapon selection, but the Cleric has access to Medium and Heavy armor with no ASF, so that evens out.  The Cleric has slightly better hit points than the Bard, and with the War Domain they can get access to a martial weapon with free Weapon Focus, I might add.  All that taken into consideration gives the Cleric an edge in combat.      SpellcastingBards have a slower progression, their DC's don't match up because their highest spell level is 6th, and their repetoir of spells is rather limited in scope.  Clerics, by contrast, have full 9th level progression plus Domain spells, can prepare any spell on their list at the beginning of each day, and their spells cover a wide range of uses such as healing, buffing, blasting, and general utility.  Cleric wins this one, hands down.Buffing Ability This category covers both party-buffs and self buffs.  The Bard has limited access to the stat-buffing spells (namely, Cat's Grace, Eagle's Splendor, and Fox's Cunning) while the Cleric has full access to the others (Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, and Owl's Wisdom).  I think it's pretty obvious that the Cleric got the better combat buffs.  Beyond that, all a Bard has is his Bardic Music, which I think is acutally better for aiding the entire party.  However, in terms of self-buffing, nobody can beat the Clerics list of awesome self-buffing spells.  Bless, Aid, Divine Power, Righteous Might, Divine Favor, Magic Vestment, and I'm sure I could go on.  With these spells, the Cleric can turn himself into a combat-monster powerhouse.  The Bard has nothing that can seriously compete.  So, in conclusion, the Bard comes off a little better at ally-buffing but looses out big time on the self-help arena.  The changes to the Bard's spell list in 3.5 really hurt his ability to enhance his combative skill.  Healing Ability Cleric wins here, no contest.  The Bard makes for a good backup healer, no doubt, but he's definitely not as good as the Cleric.So, I'd have to say that your assertation of the Bard being "on par" with the Cleric is just incorrect.  His skills are better, though.</blockquote>

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