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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 117826" data-attributes="member: 2067">o.0....I think people are using too much personal judgement calls on the nature of elves to govern this.Elves are a lot of different thing in literature, D&D, and other fantasy artworks. It does largely depend upon what the DM/Author/Artist interpretation is.Perhaps I'm being a bit reactionary, but it does grate on me a bit when someone references "literature," as if that, by the very nature of literature, should validate their point. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Anyhoo, in 3e, D&D elves have their own personality and ability. It's spelled out in the PHB.In there, the only thing that it is said is affected by the longevity of the elves is the view they take on friends, enemies, and such. They aren't petty or easily irked, nor are they easily placated. An elf probably wouldn't respond to a paltry bribe -- of what use is that in 10 years, when the nation that forged the coin has been destroyed?Of course, far be it from me to say that that's how elves *have* to be. They can be whatever you'd like, in your campaign. But making them different doesn't mean that they're not as good as those with more "artistic prescedence."The PHB only gives one reason for elves to be wizards: it comes naturally to them. There's an allusion to that they might have invented it, and that fighter/wizards are common.Well, personally, I'm a little doubtful. If magic "comes naturally," then it's not wizardry in 3e. It's sorcery. Sorcerers are even considered artsy about it: "Sorcerers create magic the way a poet creates poems...A sorcerer's power is inborn, and a part of his sould...sorcerers cast spells through innate power rather than through carefully trianed skills. Their magic is intuitive rather than logical...they have more time to learn fighting skills" (which sounds like the Fighter/Wizard reference in the favored class section of the elf racial description) "for a sorcerer, magic is an intuitive art...sorcery favors the free, chaotic, creative spirit over the disciplined mind..."Meanwhile, wizards "depend on intensive study to create their magic...for a wizard, magic is not a talent but a difficult, rewarding art...when caught by surprise, they are vulnerable...wizards show a slight tendency to law over chaos because the study of magic rewards those who are disciplined...wizards study in academies, schools, or guilds...elven wizards see themselves as artists, and hold magic in high regard as a wondrous mystery..."Oh, and as for bards: "It is said that music has a special magic...a bard's magic comes from the heart...bards see adventures as opportunities to learn...they especially relish the opportunityto enter a long-forgotten ancient tomb, to discover ancient works of magic, to deciper old tomes, to travel to strange places, to encounter exotic creatures, and to learn new songs and stories...a bard brings forth magic from his soul, not from a book...his magic emphasizes charms and illusions...a bard works magic with his music and poetry...they have a vast knowledge of local events and noteworthy items...guided by whim and intuition rather tan tradition or law...spontaneous talent, magic, and lifestyle...many bards, even those who are not elven, woship Corellon Larthian...elves are talented in music and magic, so the career of the bard comes naturally to them..."Based on this information, alone, straight from the PHB, and not letting other authors' ideas affect my view of elves, I'd say they DEFINATELY fit the role of a sorcerer or a bard more than that of a wizard. I would personally say sorcerer, as that's more about  pure inborn magic and artistry than bards, but the list of a bard definate is something an elf would be in, and I'd say that most elves would be bard/sorcerers, not fighter/wizards.Of course, wizard would come easily. But I think sorcerer definately fits the elvish style much more than wizards do.The PHB says nothing about elves wanting to be varied (though it could be implied with a chaotic alignment), and nothing about them learning more because of long lifespans (with the pace of elvish life, it might take them years to memorize a line of a poem that would take a human maybe a day). The art of a sorcerer is demanding, calling up powers within, as demanding as the art of a monk. And why does elvish variety have to be mechanically represented, when it could be represented with an elf, every time they use MAGIC MISSLE with their sorcerer powers, to give it different thematic elements (today, my beads of force will be arrows. Tomorrow, it will be the swords of fallen ancestors).Knowing a lot of spells does not make you versatile. It makes you unfocused. And "when persuing a goal,...whether an adventurous mission or learning a new skill or art" (like sorcerery is) "they can be focused and relentless."In doing this, I've also changed the elvish racial bonus from INT to CHA. This means that elves aren't logical or especially bright, but are especially endearing and captivating. An elf could make babbling gibberish sound like the truest, most exacting poetry in the world. And they do. They make stuff up, tell people it's art, and they buy it. To an elf, making stuff up is art. They can just convince other people the same way.Though that's more an IMHO and IMC, not really a glaring incongruity, but it helps maintain the ability bonus-to-the-favored-class that they have now.Anyhoo, elves *can* fit the mold of the Wizard, but by what's written, they seem to more closely fit the mold of a Socerer. Bard is close, but I don't see elves being nessecarily devoted to the jack-of-all-trades class that the bard is. Maybe if you use Monte Cook's bard variant, it would fit better...</blockquote>

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