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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gabrion" data-source="post: 2222926" data-attributes="member: 30779">AHHHHH!  No one talks <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> about the bard!  They will woop yo' @ss![/rage]Sorry, but I really felt like I have to post here.  Too many people don't like bard.  Bard are great.  A lot of their strength have been listed (most imporantly their diplomacy, bardic knowledge, and aid in combat...in that order), but I will try to give you a few others.1) PrCs (and a class)-Sublime Chord (CA), Fochlucan Lyrist (CAdv), Evangelist (CD?), Marshal (Miniatures Handbook), Warrior Skald (Races of Faerun), and Stormsinger (FB) are my favorites.Sublime Chord is great if you aren't really into the preforming, but you want to have more casting ability.  You can't still do a lot of stuff a bard could normally, but you also get 9th level spell progression. A bard with 9th level Arcane Spells?  'Nuf said.Fochlucan Lyrist is hard to get into (you need to be able to speak Druidic and have evasion), but it can pay off.  It continues singing and spellcasting for arcane and divine spells.  Pretty cool, but I don't really like it.Evangelist is great for the diplo-bard.  If you are saying bards are weak though, you must be basing your opinion on combat, which means you won't see the full merits of this class.  Still, you can stop a fight with a performance and make everyone listen calmly to what you have to say, so it's fun to play if you like that kind of thing.Any bard worth his weight should have a level of Marshal (this is a class btw, not a PrC) with the minor aura motivate charisma.  You get to add your CHA to skill checks twice, which is super for a bard.Warrior Skald might be what you want him to play.  It really enhances his ability to boost the combat effectiveness of the entire party.  I mean look at this PrC.  It is really good for a bard who wants to bolster his friends' ability to fight well.  Stormsinger is my favorite, so I left it for last.  You sound like you want a bard who can dish out some damage, so here's your fix.  Take even three levels of this PrC (which you can do by 8th level), and you have the ability to spend one use of bardic music to do damage equal to your perform check.  This should be comprable to a wizard's fireball at that level.  This PrC rocks. 2) Items-Bow of Songs (CAdv), Choker of Eloquence (CAdv), Gauntlet of Heartfelt Blows (Dragon 314).Bow of songs let you add CHA to attack and damage.  Ya...Choker of Eloquence ups your perform sing check by 10.  Remember the Stormsinger?Gauntlet of Heartfelt Blows is a great item if you want your bard to be in melee combat, which I don't really recomend, but is doable.  This item adds damage equal to your CHA mod to any melee attack.3) Feats-Extra Music, Extended Music (or whatever it's called), Snowflake Wardance (FB).Extra Music is good cause a lot of your abilities should be based on singing.Extended Music (I just know that isn't the name of the feat, but I don't have my books right now so I can't look it up) is good cause you can stop singing and the bonuses will last longer.Snowflake Wardance lets you add your CHA mod to melee attacks.  Ya, with this and the gauntlets that's CHA to attacks and damage.  Crazy good...4) The last reason everyone should be a bard is because CHA is the best ability in the game.  It can be added to pretty much anything if you want to powergame.  AC, saves, AC, saves, dmg, attacks, AC, saves, and anything else that matters can all be modified by CHA.That's what I've thought of for now and I'm sure I've missed a few things, but the ideas should help.  Sorry I mentioned a few things that have already been said, but I though they were useful and deserved another voice.  I also wanted to point out that you really should think about the game you are in.  I used to think bards were useless, till I played with a group of guys in college who made D+D more than an exercise in destruction and rage.  Roleplaying is what I discovered that day (tear from the memory)...and from that point forward, the Bard has been one of my favorite classes.  Now I've found that the Bard can also be built to kick some major behind, but the best bards will still be good diplomats and fun characters who add to the game with their with their flavor and humor.  If the player in question can't RP well, then don't let him play a bard, but don't stop him because the class is too weak.</blockquote>

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