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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Logos" data-source="post: 2285595" data-attributes="member: 32655">While the bard has some benefit as a 5th(or 6th or 7th) member of a party, there's no way I'd pick one if the four main bases(skill-monkey, arcane caster, healer, meatshield) weren't already covered.  Even then, I'd be far more inclined to take a second caster.  Yes, a bard can open up with inspire courage and then start plinking away, he won't compare damage-wise to the sorcerer who opens up with summon monster and then starts tossing fireballs.  Yes, the bard is a decent enchanter, and he tends to get enchantment spells at a lower spell level, but because his spell level progresses more slowly this doesn't necessarily help him.  He may be able to cast hold monster as a 4th level spell instead of the wizard who uses a 5th level spell slot.  But since both gain access to it at level 10, it means that the bard gets hit with a -1 to its DC.  And the bard will never get insanity or dominate monster, or any other 7th to 9th level spells, or any powerful blasting spells.The bard also suffers from MAD.  If he wants to be a remotely decent enchanter, then he needs to boost his cha through the roof to help compensate for his lower level spells.  That means that his dex and str suffer, which hurt his melee damage even more.  Yes, bards offer role-playing potential.  But so does every other class.  You can always play a bard simply because you want to play a bard, but you have to realize that unless you move as quickly as possible into one of the few powerful bard-specific PrCs(none of which are core, unfortunately), you're going to be less than effective combat-wise.  That isn't necessarily a deal breaker for you, but I don't think you can argue credibly that it isn't the case.</blockquote>

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