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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 2325920" data-attributes="member: 5143">Don't get me wrong, I was making up numbers, I was just giving an example of the types of situations I see.  The numbers are made up, but the ratios are about right.  In certain situations, each class shines.  However, is seems that 75% of combats are like the one above.If you want it in more generalities:Our fighters normally hit, even with full power attack.  The pluses to hit don't help them at all.  SOME enemies with high ACs it helps against, but on the average, useless.  Yes, this is normally due to 30+ strength barbarians.Most of the time bard songs have no effect on at least 50% of the party in any given round.I don't think I need to justify clerics holding their own  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I would prefer another fireball or another 64 points of damage from a fighter over the bard benefits any day.Bards CAN be useful (especially creative use of feats and PrC), but their usefulness is limited.  Their job each round tends to be to have about 60% of the effect that a "normal" class would have each round.  They can switch between classes each round though.Problem is, most of the time, we find encounters hard enough that 60% isn't good enough.  If you get hit for 60 damage each round and you have 90 hp, then when someone casts a healing spell on you, they better heal you for over 30 so you can survive next round.  20 points isn't good enough.  If the enemy has 30 hit points left and is going to kill one of your party members right after your turn, you need to be able to do 30 damage, not 20.Those types of situations happen fairly often to us.</blockquote>

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