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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rodrigo Istalindir" data-source="post: 2885985" data-attributes="member: 2810">They're not combat meisters by themselves.  Never will be.  Hardly.  A sorcerer or psion isn't going to have the skill points to compete, and a rogue (despite their skill points) probably isn't go to max Diplomacy.  Bluff, maybe, but they won't have the CHA that a bard will.  Plus bards can take personality-affecting spells like charm person, and they can take Eagle's Splendor.That's not a limitation of bardic music, per se.  It's a function of being able to maintain concentration on only one effect at a time.  Casters have the same disadvantage.  And even at first level, Inspire Courage lasts for 5 rounds after singing for one.An average of 1 pt per level isn't worth quibbling over, and I'd be hard-pressed to buy into bards and rangers having the same hit die.Bardic lore isn't supposed to take the place of ranks in Knowledge skills, its there to complement them.  Want to know everything about Olidimmara, put some points in Knowledge (Religion).  Want a chance to recognize the abandoned temple without those ranks, use Bardic Knowledge.  Think of it as being able to do untrained Knowledge checks, which no other class can do.  (That said, I'd have rather seen Bardic Knowledge as an enhancement to skill checks rather than its own mechanic.)1 per level.  But yeah, more than anything else, that sucks.  Bad design, and totally inconsistent with the other classes.  Especially stupid in 3.5, where Perform ranks have to be divided among performance types.Against your typical rogue, you'll have better face skills, better knowledge skills, better language skills, and various spells including healing.  Nnot to mention not having to make UMD checks for lots of useful things.  You can be pretty sneaky on your own, and in a stand-up fight are as good at combat.That is kinda weak in that it never comes up.  Something that let the bard force a concentration check for any enemy casting a spell with a verbal component would have been more useful.That's true across the board.  Stats matter less and less (skillwise) the higher in level you get.   The difference for a fighter between STR 14 and STR 18 at 1st level is immense; much less so at 12th.</blockquote>

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