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Bards Should Be Half-Casters in 5.5e/6e
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8391309" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>OK. Let's respond to this.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em>Teleportation Circle</em> is more a bard spell than any other class. Bards are the people to whom all doors are opened - and Teleportation Circle in specific is about going through a door someone else has made.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em>Power Word Kill</em> - the spell about having the right word to stop someone's heart or make them lose the will to live? Yes, that's bardic magic.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em>Foresight</em> is the sort of low key but powerful spell I would expect out of bards wearing their lorekeeper and loremaster hat more than I would any other class.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em>Prismatic Spray</em> is leaning in to the rockstar element of being a bard - it's the light show.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em>Resurrection</em> if you're going to allow anything to draw someone's soul back into their body a bard should be on the list. Personally I think it's too easy.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em>Regeneration </em>is solid if you have bards as healing and high level casters. Healing is well within the bard archetype and</li> </ul><p>So yes I think that every single one of those spells does belong on the bard list if high level bards are to be a thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p>What role do <em>wizards</em> fill in the game? They're primarily direct damage blasters? Or are they primarily control characters? Or are they primarily utility characters? Because a lot of the time they're doing different things from that list. Bards are a stronger mythical archetype and more focused than wizards.</p><p></p><p>Valour and Swords I agree are an overlap. College of Whispers isn't a weapon combat subclass - it's a spy and assassin.</p><p></p><p>Nope. College of Glamour is a rockstar who wants to be the center of attention. College of Eloquence is a diplomat or grifter who promotes or manipulates others. These are not the same thing at all.</p><p></p><p>Oh noes. A PHB subclass doubles down on part of the thematics of the class and is distinct from the other PHB subclasses. That's well over half the PHB subclasses.</p><p></p><p><em>7</em> of the 8 subclasses are thematically different, with the only exception being Valour/Swords. </p><p></p><p>Meanwhile this compares pretty favourably IMO to e.g. wizards where all the PHB wizard classes are just "Wizard but good at <em>this</em> type of spell" and there are eight of them. And that you personally do not find them thematically different and interesting means that you are someone who shouldn't be trying to fix the bard because you do not understand how it works when the bard is about as popular as any other class except the fighter, the rogue (who are a consistent first and second), and the druid (who's a consistent last).</p><p></p><p>"I don't like it" isn't even to being close to proof that something that is decently popular is broken. All you've shown is that you don't get the bard and you don't like it - and that the two are probably linked.</p><p></p><p>And as I mentioned earlier you don't start off by saying "We should nerf this" unless it's gamebreaking. You start off by presenting a <em>positive</em> vision of what something could be rather than simply slagging it off as your reason it should change.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8391309, member: 87792"] OK. Let's respond to this. [LIST] [*][I]Teleportation Circle[/I] is more a bard spell than any other class. Bards are the people to whom all doors are opened - and Teleportation Circle in specific is about going through a door someone else has made. [*][I]Power Word Kill[/I] - the spell about having the right word to stop someone's heart or make them lose the will to live? Yes, that's bardic magic. [*][I]Foresight[/I] is the sort of low key but powerful spell I would expect out of bards wearing their lorekeeper and loremaster hat more than I would any other class. [*][I]Prismatic Spray[/I] is leaning in to the rockstar element of being a bard - it's the light show. [*][I]Resurrection[/I] if you're going to allow anything to draw someone's soul back into their body a bard should be on the list. Personally I think it's too easy. [*][I]Regeneration [/I]is solid if you have bards as healing and high level casters. Healing is well within the bard archetype and [/LIST] So yes I think that every single one of those spells does belong on the bard list if high level bards are to be a thing. What role do [I]wizards[/I] fill in the game? They're primarily direct damage blasters? Or are they primarily control characters? Or are they primarily utility characters? Because a lot of the time they're doing different things from that list. Bards are a stronger mythical archetype and more focused than wizards. Valour and Swords I agree are an overlap. College of Whispers isn't a weapon combat subclass - it's a spy and assassin. Nope. College of Glamour is a rockstar who wants to be the center of attention. College of Eloquence is a diplomat or grifter who promotes or manipulates others. These are not the same thing at all. Oh noes. A PHB subclass doubles down on part of the thematics of the class and is distinct from the other PHB subclasses. That's well over half the PHB subclasses. [I]7[/I] of the 8 subclasses are thematically different, with the only exception being Valour/Swords. Meanwhile this compares pretty favourably IMO to e.g. wizards where all the PHB wizard classes are just "Wizard but good at [I]this[/I] type of spell" and there are eight of them. And that you personally do not find them thematically different and interesting means that you are someone who shouldn't be trying to fix the bard because you do not understand how it works when the bard is about as popular as any other class except the fighter, the rogue (who are a consistent first and second), and the druid (who's a consistent last). "I don't like it" isn't even to being close to proof that something that is decently popular is broken. All you've shown is that you don't get the bard and you don't like it - and that the two are probably linked. And as I mentioned earlier you don't start off by saying "We should nerf this" unless it's gamebreaking. You start off by presenting a [I]positive[/I] vision of what something could be rather than simply slagging it off as your reason it should change. [/QUOTE]
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