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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 8393464" data-attributes="member: 92511">You know what? I was just rereading (for the million and a half'th time) the 1e PHB and saw, to my complete surprise, that Druid's were actually more related to Charisma, too. Makes complete sense that that would lead/connect to the Bard's reliance on Charisma (just as an archetype) and it's initial connections to druidic magic. Yeah, they are a subclass of Cleric and, yes, Wisdom was important...but only a minimum of 12 (i think it was) ! Like the Paladin (which has always had obvious attachment to clerical magic), to be a druid in 1e you had to have a much better Charisma. Minimunm of 15 for a druid!! That's not an insignificant abiltiy score in 1e. 15's were not a common thing (by natural rolls).Given this "new" eye-opening information, I think I would amend my previous list -since making druid's half-casters left a bad taste in my mouth, though they certainly have enough non-spell supernatural power bells and whistles to make up for it...Now, I"m thinking it would look like this...Wisdom-based casters:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cleric: full access to Cleric/Divine magic spell list</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Warlock: half-caster progression with Warlock spell list thematic to various types of patrons (some typical arcane effects, some typical divine, some nature/druid, some dark/occult) + additional at-will invocations + supernatural powers determined from patron.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Paladin: third-caster progression to Paladin spell list, includes many Cleric/Divine magic spell list, cross discipline abjurations, and a few paladin-specific things (including smites) + additional supernatural powers: auras, lay on hands, resistances/immunities (disease, fear, etc... all the typical paladin stuff)</li> </ul>Charisma-based casters:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Druid: full access to Druid/Nature magic spell list</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sorcerer: half-caster progression with Sorcerer spell list thematic to various types of origins (some typical arcane effects, some typical divine, some nature/druid, some dark occult) + additional at-will metamagics + supernatural powers determined from origin</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard: third-caster progression to Bardic spell list, includes many Druid/Nature magic spell lists, cross-discipline enchantments/illusions, and a few Bard-specific things (including [spell]"songs") + additional supernatural powers: fascination, countering enchantments, legend lore.</li> </ul>Intelligence-based casters:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard: full access to Mage/Arcane magic spell list</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Swordmage: half-caster progression with Swordmage (or whatever name you prefer for a base Ftr/MU class) spell list thematic to various types of "Practices" (some typical arcane effects, some typical divine, some nature/druid, some dark/occult) + additional at-will "evocations" + supernatural powers determined by Practice.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ranger: a third-caster progression to Ranger spell list, includes many Rituals from all spell lists, cross-discipline divinations and transmutations, and a few Ranger-specific things (including [hunter's] "marks") + additional supernatural powers: something like primieval awareness, animal empathy, resistances/immunities (elements/-als, fae/sylvan things, etc...), thematically appropriate things.</li> </ul>Yes. I think I like that better. Like Druids with Charisma, Rangers in 1e, while yes needing wisdom also, needed decent intelligence scores and since I always prefer a non-magic Ranger, their skillset has always looked to me to be something more dependent on their knowledge, via training and/or experience, than some "wisdom/enlightenment" kind of thing (though "judgement" is, clearly, always important).</blockquote>

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