Bargaining, Haggling and Bartering

[Water Bob]

I usually roleplay this stuff, but I'm about to skip some time in my campaign. I just want to roll some dice and move on.

How do you guys dice for bargaining, haggling, and bartering in your games?





I thought of having opposed Bluff throws, with the difference x 1% representing the difference.

For example, the PC rolls a Bluff of 17. The merchant rolls a Bluff of 23. This means the price settled upon is 6% higher than normal.




I saw the bargaining rule in the Complete Adventurer, using the Diplomacy skill, but I really don't like the way that rule is written.



Any other ideas?

 

[Sekhmet]

Use Appraise to determine what the player thinks the value is, and any of the talking skills (opposed by the merchant's skill check) as a modifier to what the player will get.

 

[Ragmon]

Sadly we know just about all the magical item prices and usually over pay for mundane ones...and even if we barter we just improvise.

 

[Li Shenron]

For bargaining, this is my favourite rule I could find so far. It's not super simple tho... (text is copy-pasted from this web page, but you have to scroll down)

Bargaining: you can get a better deal when either purchasing or trying to sell something. The rules are different depending on which side is your PC on. In both cases, rolls are relevant to each item that the PC wants to buy or sell. You cannot bargain again for the same item until next day at least (sometimes longer).

When the PC is buying from an NPC:

- the NPC has an undisclosed minimum price, he will not sell below that price
- the NPC proposes a starting price, and makes an Appraise roll that sets the DC
- the PC makes an opposed Appraise check: for each point he beats the DC, he can get a 5% discount on the starting price (but never below the minimum price)
- if the PC check result is 5 or more points below the DC, the NPC increases all his prices by 5% (cumulative in case of multiple failures)

When the PC is selling to an NPC:

- the NPC has an undisclosed maximum price, he will not buy above that price
- the NPC proposes a starting price, and makes an Appraise roll that sets the DC
- the PC makes an opposed Appraise check: for each point he beats the DC, he can get a 5% increase on the starting price (but never above the maximum price)
- if the PC check result is 5 or more points below the DC, the NPC decreases his starting offer and all the following offers by 5% (cumulative in case of multiple failures)

Note: these rules don't prevent a PC to make the starting offer, but if the NPC refuses the offer the rules continue as written above.

I like the use of Appraise instead of Diplomacy because it makes the former (usually weak) skill more useful, but I would probably allow for a synergy bonus from Diplomacy to this use of Appraise.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I once role and roll played an attempt to sell some gems for higher than they were worth.

the PC's met the merchant at the tavern, and we assigned an increase to the haggling price on every successful diplomacy or bluff check I made, and lowered the price when I failed. We assigned the merchant a penalty to his opposed check for each alcoholic beverage I could convince him to drink, on my tab.

So, I was using Diplomacy vs. Sense Motive with a low DC to convince him to drink, using Diplomacy and Bluff checks vs. Sense Motive with a higher DC but adjusted by the amount of alcohol in his system to sell the gems.

 

[Celebrim]

I usually roleplay this stuff, but I'm about to skip some time in my campaign. I just want to roll some dice and move on.

How do you guys dice for bargaining, haggling, and bartering in your games?

Base price is determined by how well the merchant likes the character. This is determined by an initial reaction check (diplomacy roll). This is modified by the difference in the PC's apparant social station and the social station of the merchant. If the merchant dislikes you, he won't offer you a good price. If you've done business with him before, saved his town from dragons, rescued his wife from orcs (all earning you new reaction rolls with positive modifiers), and as a result he loves you like a brother, he may sell to you below cost provided he doesn't think you are taking advantage of his generousity.

Generally I don't do more detail than that. If I were to dice out haggling it would be with the buyer's Appraise skill versus the seller's social skill of choice (usually Bluff). If I were to play out haggling, I'd make an Appraise skill for the player and tell him what the item was worth on the basis of his Appraise check, then I'd have him haggle with me on the basis of that knowledge and my own knowledge of what the item was really worth and the above determined reaction check that established essentially the seller's minimum desired profit.

Appraise is a very overlooked tool in the DMs arsenal. It's essentially the 'looting' skill. Everyone knows that gold is valuable, but not everyone can recognize gold plated lead from solid gold, glass jewelry from real gems, and so forth.

 

[Greenfield]

Whether to use Appraise (for goods) or Handle Animal or Knowledge-Natre (for horses or other livestock) is situational. Some goods, such as foodstuffs, have a pretty steady price and it's well known.

I use one of the above though to establish the base price, generally ranging no more than 10% above or below common market price.

That sets the stage. Haggling is Diplomacy based, but please recall that a good Bluff skill gives a synergy bonus to Diplomacy. I also give "professional" bonuses if you are a craftsperson who can/does make such items, or if you're a merchant for whom the item(s) in question are part of your normal stock and trade.

And, just like the haggling rules in the books, there's a flat maximum you can move the price by, and it's not that wide a range.

Barter is often used in our games, either in pure item for item exchange, or as a way to spice up a deal.

For example, we were looking for some items from a guild hall. It was known that there were spell casters in town who "dabbled" in Necromancy. For research purposes only, of course.

Prices were quite high. My character (when he was being run by someone else) was at one point on the night side of the Nile, where it entered the Land of the Dead, and had collected a few pounds of the black sand from that spot.

I offered the merchant an ounce of that sand, "In case some of your research clients might be interested." Once he understood what it was, and verified that I was telling the truth, we suddenly found our bargaining a lot easier. I let him know that there was more available, if his customers showed an interest.

To the point, I used a plot-hook oddity that had no known special properties and that hadn't cost me anything as a bargaining chip because it was something this particular merchant had a known market for. And it worked because it made good story.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

HlydeDaue
has no status.

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6
Novice (Lvl 1)

Reported

 

[Water Bob]

Hmm... It seems I can see quite a few skills as appropriate for haggle/barter/bargain, each that does the deed in a different way.



Appraise. "Yes, but it's not worth that much. How about three silvers?"

Bluff. "My good sir, this is the finest silk in all the land."

Diplomacy. "I'll tell you what...I'll give you twelve silver lunas but you give me two of them."

Intimidate. "This is the best deal you're going to get. Take it or leave it."

Profession (Merchant). (This guy has heard it all and can negotiate using any method.)

Sense Motive. (With a feeling that the merchant will come down...) "Twelve lunas for two is too high. I'll give you nine lunas for both of them."




I like the comments made above, though, that the focus should be put on Appraise, to give that skill some worth. And, the comments about haggleing being a Diplomacy based skill, too, is also something to take to heart.

 

[Ashtagon]

Intimidate. "This is the best deal you're going to get. Take it or leave it."

That's not really Intimidate skill. Intimidate skill involves harm or threat of harm to the target or to people the target cares about. At most, this is threatening a failure to gain, which is quite distinct from threatening a loss.