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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7510789" data-attributes="member: 29398">We're still talking across each other here, I think.Re: touch AC:Even if 5e doesn't include it in the rules, the concept is still going to be present.1. If all I'm trying to do is touch you - not damage you, just touch some part of you - but you're trying to avoid that touch, what AC am I rolling against and how does it get there?2. If on the other hand I'm trying to hit you hard enough to damage you and (obviously) you're trying to avoid that hit, what AC am I rolling against and how does it get there?The answer to 2. is obvious, as it's the AC value you use all the time in combat.  But it won't be the same as the answer to 1. if you're wearing any armour; and this is the difference I'm trying to get at.  If my AC is 15 and you roll 13 to hit me, you won't do any damage but chances are the DM is still going to narrate that the blow connected with me (probably my shield, as it missed by 2); where if you only roll a 3 to hit the chances are the resulting narration will involve the words "missed completely" in it somewhere.I think the unintuitive part is the very comparison you make here between a creature and an object; a comparison that simply isn't necessary.  In both cases the to-hit roll (for game mechanics purposes) is most of the time checking whether you've hit well enough and-or hard enough to cause damage.  If yes, roll damage.  If no, it then becomes simply a narration question as to whether the swing missed completely, or connected but not hard enough for damage, or was blocked by a shield or by cover, or whatever.But sometimes, e.g. when I've got a loaded shocking staff and all I need to do is touch you with it in order to deliver its shock, your armour and some other AC factors might not help you.  In these cases, I'm rolling against a lower AC.Mechanically, in the game it represents exactly the same thing: how high an attacker's to-hit roll has to be in order to cause damage.</blockquote>

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