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<blockquote data-quote="ProfessorCirno" data-source="post: 5463162" data-attributes="member: 65637">No, because most monsters don't have weapons to disarm, overrun and bullrush were useless, and everything is too big and has too many feet to grapple or trip (or disarm or overrun or bullrush either, since size matters).&nbsp; Of all the above only tripping can &quot;work&quot; and that's only if a wizard is giving you a thousand buffs, and even then you lose it once everything starts flying.&nbsp; There's a reason there's only the &quot;fighter trip monkey&quot; and not one built&nbsp; around any of the other maneuvers - at best, you've done relatively little, and at worst, you've just wasted your turn.As for homogenous, it's like claiming that everything in 3e is the same since they all use d20 take highest - a complaint I did see when 3e first came out, since in 2e every damned thing had it's own mechanic.So yeah, my 4e fighter throws foes around and grabs them and trips them and taunts them.&nbsp; My free hand fighter is basically a luchadore, it's awesome.&nbsp; 3e fighters?&nbsp; Charge and full attack.What kills me is that 3e fighters were advertised as being made for new players, but they're so not the newbie class.&nbsp; They're the most complex because you can never change feats.&nbsp; Ok you have a complete newbie making a wizard and they chose a bunch of terrible spells.&nbsp; Next day, they change them.&nbsp; Meanwhile the newbie fighter has terrible feats and welp, that's it.&nbsp; That's your class ability.&nbsp; And you can never, ever change it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ProfessorCirno, post: 5463162, member: 65637"] No, because most monsters don't have weapons to disarm, overrun and bullrush were useless, and everything is too big and has too many feet to grapple or trip (or disarm or overrun or bullrush either, since size matters). Of all the above only tripping can "work" and that's only if a wizard is giving you a thousand buffs, [I]and even then[/I] you lose it once everything starts flying. There's a reason there's only the "fighter trip monkey" and not one built around any of the other maneuvers - at best, you've done relatively little, and at worst, you've just wasted your turn. As for homogenous, it's like claiming that everything in 3e is the same since they all use d20 take highest - a complaint I [I]did[/I] see when 3e first came out, since in 2e every damned thing had it's own mechanic. So yeah, my 4e fighter throws foes around and grabs them and trips them and taunts them. My free hand fighter is basically a luchadore, it's awesome. 3e fighters? Charge and full attack. What kills me is that 3e fighters were advertised as being made for new players, but they're [B]so[/B] not the newbie class. They're the [B]most[/B] complex because you can [I]never change feats[/I]. Ok you have a complete newbie making a wizard and they chose a bunch of terrible spells. Next day, they change them. Meanwhile the newbie fighter has terrible feats and welp, that's it. That's your class ability. And you can never, ever change it. [/QUOTE]

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