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<blockquote data-quote="CuRoi" data-source="post: 5463839" data-attributes="member: 98032">Well, and here is an interesting thing often overlooked about older editions. Just because there weren't rules for some combat manuver did not mean it didn't happen. That's one interesting shift in mindset from 1e/2e to 3e I think. 1e/2e had a bunch of archaic bizarre rules, some which frankly made no sense or existed just to have some odd table you could roll on. 3e wanted to codify things, streamline and make sure a rule existed for just about everything you want to do and that it all got wrapped into a neat package. Somewhere along the line, players and DMs started thinking &quot;well if there isn't a rule for it, I can't do it&quot;.&nbsp;However, I think by virtue of there -not- being rules for something, more things probably did happened. A DM was more often put on the spot to make ad hoc rulings which in turn made for a more creative flow. &nbsp;If someone said to me in 2e &quot;I want to rush that guy and put him on his arse.&quot; I'd stop, think for a second and say &quot;Ok, roll a to hit, +2 for the charge and give me a strength check.&quot; &nbsp;In 3e, I have to stop and say &quot;Ok...hang on ummm lets see...you provoke an AoO, unless you have Improved Bull Rush, and he's exactly 20 squares away and it's not quite a straight line so you can't really charge, and he's got reach with his spear so he's going to smack you right about here on the map with an AoO anyway...let's see, he hit...ooh he has Improved Critical so let's try to confirm. No, doesn't confirm. Are you doing this unarmed? Do you need Improved Unarmed to aovid an AoO? Ahhh screw it he doesn't have Combat Reflexes anyway so it doesn't matter. Hmmm ok, now that you are finally there let's roll opposed Strength checks, and let's see...he's bigger so let me add +4 bonus...you won by 16...errrrm I guess it says here you push him back 15 or is it 20 feet? Oh, crud, forgot this guy is a centaur, he get's an addiitonal +4 against that for stability...so I guess it's just back 10 feet? Ok, ummm I was going to throw in some descriptive flavor text but, um I got a bit lost there, but you push him back.&quot;&nbsp;The codification of &quot;options&quot; does not exactly equal the existence of said options (nor does it equal the efficacy of exercising said options).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CuRoi, post: 5463839, member: 98032"] Well, and here is an interesting thing often overlooked about older editions. Just because there weren't rules for some combat manuver did not mean it didn't happen. That's one interesting shift in mindset from 1e/2e to 3e I think. 1e/2e had a bunch of archaic bizarre rules, some which frankly made no sense or existed just to have some odd table you could roll on. 3e wanted to codify things, streamline and make sure a rule existed for just about everything you want to do and that it all got wrapped into a neat package. Somewhere along the line, players and DMs started thinking "well if there isn't a rule for it, I can't do it". However, I think by virtue of there -not- being rules for something, more things probably did happened. A DM was more often put on the spot to make ad hoc rulings which in turn made for a more creative flow. If someone said to me in 2e "I want to rush that guy and put him on his arse." I'd stop, think for a second and say "Ok, roll a to hit, +2 for the charge and give me a strength check." In 3e, I have to stop and say "Ok...hang on ummm lets see...you provoke an AoO, unless you have Improved Bull Rush, and he's exactly 20 squares away and it's not quite a straight line so you can't really charge, and he's got reach with his spear so he's going to smack you right about here on the map with an AoO anyway...let's see, he hit...ooh he has Improved Critical so let's try to confirm. No, doesn't confirm. Are you doing this unarmed? Do you need Improved Unarmed to aovid an AoO? Ahhh screw it he doesn't have Combat Reflexes anyway so it doesn't matter. Hmmm ok, now that you are finally there let's roll opposed Strength checks, and let's see...he's bigger so let me add +4 bonus...you won by 16...errrrm I guess it says here you push him back 15 or is it 20 feet? Oh, crud, forgot this guy is a centaur, he get's an addiitonal +4 against that for stability...so I guess it's just back 10 feet? Ok, ummm I was going to throw in some descriptive flavor text but, um I got a bit lost there, but you push him back." The codification of "options" does not exactly equal the existence of said options (nor does it equal the efficacy of exercising said options). [/QUOTE]

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