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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5463885" data-attributes="member: 11300">In which case then, either you weren't trying very hard as a player (utilizing your own magic where necessary - and not needing a thousand wizard buffs either) or your DM was giving no consideration to what your character-build was trying to do. I found this type of fighter a lot of fun to play. YMOV.Initially for me, it went way beyond roll a d20 and roll high. I'm talking about every class using the same at will/encounter/daily mechanic; everyone who gets "poisoned" has the same chance of recovering from it regardless of anything (level, con, expertise etc.), all the different character's fort/reflex/will were basically the same three numbers shifted around depending upon not very much. There was not much to differentiate them from each other. They were a generic character first, playing a role second and then third was their class which determined the particular flavour of their role. For me, this was completely arse about. Again YMMV.Surprisingly, you really seem to have the blinkers on with this statement. The fighter in the Kingmaker campaign I'm GMing is doing exactly the same as you are describing with your 4e fighter. Perhaps it does come down more to the players and GM than the ruleset (although I will say that 4e "encourages" this more so than 3e).I disagree with this. Understanding all the ins and outs of a variety of magical effects is far more complex than handling a handful of feats. Both classes are OK at first level (and most "newbies" as you put it would be happy to accept advice as to what will make their character more useful). At higher levels though, spellcasters get a lot more complex than the fighter.In addition, if a new player came up to you saying they were disappointed in how their character's feat selection was turning out, would you just slam the door in their face and say "sucker!" or would you try to help them out? Again, I appreciate that 4e has hardcoded effective characters into the game but at what cost? For some, this cost is too high. For others, this is what they've been looking for. To each their own.You generally have a good idea of what you are talking about. I know. You are very good at exposing and puncturing silly or fallacious statements. I have seen this repeatedly on the EN World and Paizo forums.I'd be careful with this one that you don't fall into the assumption trap here. In case you were wondering, I've played 4e regularly since it's release and have had a DDI account since it came out. I'm sure others on this thread have also had greater exposure to the latest D&D version than perhaps you are giving credit.Best RegardsHerremann the Wise</blockquote>

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