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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5463946" data-attributes="member: 11300">But you can't really do that can you because magical gear and expected wealth at each level is a core aspect of 3e (and is perhaps one of my chief gripes with 3e after hit points - don't get me started on hit points!). Magic is intrinsic to all characters in 3e regardless of how much I would like it otherwise. Pretty much, magic supports those actions and is occasionally expected to.My very very initial thought on 3e looking at the PHB and that stupid picture of the barbarian was "what have they done to my game! They're dumbing it down the bastards." I then actually read the book and came to the opposite opinion - that they saved it from itself. The differences between the classes were obvious because as much as everyone got some similar stuff, each class was still very different to build. Feats were powerful and changed what your character could do. There were so many skills to be good at (or not good at). The differences between the different classes was fantastically obvious! Again though YMMV.But they are all tied to the role of striker, leader, defender, controller. Over time, this has been amplified (but also extended here and there). A character's fairly rigid role is far more defining in play than their class is my point.When you have a player that is more interested in what their character does rather than how their character is going to mechanically do it, and combine that with a DM who focuses on saying yes rather than no, it is an awful lot of fun and perfectly within the rules. If a character takes improved disarm, it is up to the DM/GM to give the character the opportunity to use it here and there and have the opponents act appropriately when they do. Admittedly, at higher level, the dynamics of the game changes and perhaps this is what you are focusing on. You are not going to reasonably trip a gargantuan dragon or gelatinous cube... oh wait <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I like what pathfinder did to the toughness feat by the way. As for magical effects, I am thinking at higher levels with the newer player not able to get the most out of their spells because they do not fully understand how the mechanics work and so may not use a spell when it would be optimal to do so.Rule zero baby! If I see something not working at my table, I'm going to be fixing it. A new player I'd cut some slack. A more experienced player I'd point to the retraining rules.But yes, system mastery is fun in itself and can be a game unto itself for certain players. As long as the DM can control the optimizers and assist the others where possible, then most of the time, things will be OK and everyone gets what they want out of the game.Intimidate, craft, ride etc. Plus the intelligent fighter build is a reasonable one (as I've been trying to indicate <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ). Besides which, in any version of the game you have roleplaying. A character will interact with the world how they will and make the most of it outside of combat. Again this comes down more to the group, the campaign they are playing in, the module they are playing and the situation they are involved in more so than the rules.If anything, I have found skill challenges to occasionally be a distraction with this as players fumble around with their static skill selection and try to frame some form of relevance to the situation presented by the DM. My group prefers a more natural approach to things like characters in a story rather than hiding behind a skill check. And to be fair, the search skill is perhaps my most hated addition to the game. It basically says "I couldn't be bothered interacting with your world and so I'll just roll/take 20 and you tell me what I find." Using skills to replace roleplaying is something I don't like about both 3e and 4e - but it is something easily fixed. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Best RegardsHerremann the Wise</blockquote>

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