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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dr_Ruminahui" data-source="post: 5147657" data-attributes="member: 81104">No, not condescending... irrelavant, perhaps, as I stated quite firmly (I thought) that I didn't care what the RAW said on this issue.  That said, I'm sorry if I came off too strong - both Karins Dad and Draco Suave in full debate sometimes push my buttons, and I'm afraid that influenced my post.I would take dead as a descriptor meaning "once alive, but no longer so".  For example, dead tree was once a live tree, but is no longer.  Just because it has "tree" in the term doesn't require that I treat it in the same way as I would a live tree, or that they have the same mechanical effects in the game.   Same goes for a dead ally versus a live ally.Now, I have no problem with the term "dead ally" as it is used in the above cited power.  In terms of the effects of that power, it is pretty clear who its intended target is (indeed, any ambiguity has to do with the definition of ally, as discussed in the numerous "whose my ally/enemy" threads - but no need to rehash those, as in those I believe common sense is again the proper approach).  So, for that power, Draco Suave was right when he said the term is clear.  Where I do disagree is that the term "dead ally" in one power (or even in several) somehow implies that it is still treated as an ally mechanically for purposes other than that one power (or those powers).But I guess my main point is that I don't care what the rules say in this regard - if the rules do require that a dead ally is still an ally mechanically, I simply won't play it that way, as I think in some edge cases its potentially broken, and the rest of the time its just silly.  So yes, I would treat a dead creature as an object, even if the rules don't say so explicitly.  To me, the sparcity of rules on being dead, and the fact it isn't listed as a condition, strongly suggests that a dead character isn't a character as such.  After all, there is nothing in the rules that says a dead character can't take actions - which to me means that the rules intend you to apply common sense, which to me means that they can't spend actions or be an ally because they are no longer a creature/character, but an object.To me that means that a dead ally no longer:- can be allowed to spend a healing surge by a power allowing each/any ally to do so (after all, nothing specifically prevents that)- can no longer give other characters boosts inherent to that character (so, the Warlord's action point boost no longer applies)- no longer counts as sharing tribal feets/tatoos (so, no carrying around dead allies to gain that benefit)- etc.Or, from a DMs side:- dead hobgoblins don't give the phalanx soldier benefit to live hobgoblins- gnolls/hyenas don't get their pack attack bonus for having a dead gnoll next to the target- evistros don't get their carnage bonus for having dead allies next to the target- legion devils don't get their squad defence bonus from dead allies- etc.So, my standpoint is that I don't believe the RAW state one way or the other that a dead ally is still mechanically an ally except for powers that state "dead ally" - and indeed, that a reasonable reading of the rules implies the opposite.  If the rules do say so, I think they are stupid, and I won't play them that way.  Anyone else is happy to play them however they want...</blockquote>

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