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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Blow Leprechaun" data-source="post: 3586408" data-attributes="member: 52540">I wouldn't put Batman even close to 20th level. I'm not sure I'd even put him at 10th level. I'm thinking 7th level.In a lot of ways, Batman is like your typical adventuring PC - he loses a lot, has to skulk away and come up with a new plan and try and adjust circumstances to gain victory over an opponent who is significantly more powerful than he is.The vast majority of Batman's major villains are all seriously flawed characters, and I'd say most of them are more powerful than he is. The Joker is almost certainly smarter than Batman, he's just completely and unmanageably insane.You have to separate CL from ECL. Batman's probably a CL 7, but if you give him his wealth, his ECL is much higher than that. The Joker's probably a higher CL, but with his insanity an ECL lower than that.Batman has always been about exploiting the weaknesses in others, not about beating them at their own game. He's not super-powerful, he's tactical and patient. He's the ultimate metagaming PC.</blockquote>