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Battle Engineer for Avengers?
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<blockquote data-quote="mneme" data-source="post: 5185220" data-attributes="member: 59248"><p>I've been mulling over my choices for my (Deva, Retribution, LFR, axe-wielding, of Tempus) Avenger on the cusp of paragon levels.</p><p></p><p>The problem, of course, is that most Avenger paragon paths are lackluster -- particularly on the Int side.</p><p></p><p>Dervish of Dawn is ok, but lackluster. I mean, save on AP, defense bonus, defensive enconter, healing utility, and, ok, strikerish 3W daily at 20th.</p><p></p><p>Watchful Shepard is also really heal-oriented, and dude, implement attacks for an avenger?</p><p></p><p>Hammer of Judgement is strong, but really wants you weilding a hammer.</p><p></p><p>Unveiled Visage is all implement-based, though the features are good.</p><p></p><p>Ardent Champion, Serene Initiate, Watcher of Vengance, and Zealoous Assassin are Dex-based or functionally dex-based (the latter two because they're based on Stealth)</p><p></p><p>Weapon of Fortune is crud.</p><p></p><p>Oathsworn is lackluster (the utility is nice, though)</p><p></p><p>Dread Imperator is Unity-only.</p><p></p><p>Relentless Slayer is, ok, strong, but I'm turned off by the two worthless features (the L12 utility and the Slayer's Oaths are both worth than useless -- traps that you should never use or seek to take advantage of). Maybe worth retraining into at 20th for the L20 power, but still.</p><p></p><p>That leaves Favored Soul -- which -is- pretty sweet, at least once you get the L16 flight ability, but the rest is still kinda meh -- heal on AP, +1 defenses until you take damage, Daze+Push+concealment 2W charge attack, daily regen stance (goes well with the defensive boost), nice controllery D20 mutlti-attack. All decent stuff, but nothing that makes you sit up and take notice except the always on flight.</p><p></p><p>And I'm not interested in investing in Strength and taking a Fighter feature, and Morninglord leaves me a bit cold (as does the prospect of changing gods midstream).</p><p></p><p>So -- what about the Battle Engineer? The broken utility's been dropped down to a utility, but it's still:</p><p></p><p>+1 to hit and 1d6 all turn when you spend an AP (which lets you nova with AP + Avenger's Fury + Standard Action and get the bonus thrice).</p><p></p><p>The L11 encounter power, while Int based, is -more- accurate than a Wis-based power (Int+3 weapon power -- in a build where Int is usually within 2 of Wis) and gives an amazing party nova power -- +Wis (+7 at 11th level) to attack and defense as an Effect. -and- has a ranged option (which is useful if you get the party to suround you and ready and find that there's nothing adjacent on your turn), just in case.</p><p></p><p>And, of course, while the L12 is now a daily, getting +Int damage (or getting to give it out to the party ranger or other twin-striker) with a great crit effect all encounter is still all kinds of awesome.</p><p></p><p>The rest is still pretty meh (I'm not even sure you get a benefit from the other class features and Greater Magic Weapon, though I think that's the intention and a +12 attack/+10 damage +brutal1 1/encounter party nova is just obscene), though the daily is at least quite usable and nicely controllery even on a miss).</p><p></p><p>It seems to me that despite charop not even mentioning that option -- and despite a bunch of wasted (ish) abilities, that's one of the strongest possiblities I've got (not to mention fun). Even for a striker, giving the entire party a huge bonus to attack and damage (while doing a highly accurate 2W attack of your own) is going to be better most 3W or even 4W attacks, I think.</p><p></p><p>What do people think?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mneme, post: 5185220, member: 59248"] I've been mulling over my choices for my (Deva, Retribution, LFR, axe-wielding, of Tempus) Avenger on the cusp of paragon levels. The problem, of course, is that most Avenger paragon paths are lackluster -- particularly on the Int side. Dervish of Dawn is ok, but lackluster. I mean, save on AP, defense bonus, defensive enconter, healing utility, and, ok, strikerish 3W daily at 20th. Watchful Shepard is also really heal-oriented, and dude, implement attacks for an avenger? Hammer of Judgement is strong, but really wants you weilding a hammer. Unveiled Visage is all implement-based, though the features are good. Ardent Champion, Serene Initiate, Watcher of Vengance, and Zealoous Assassin are Dex-based or functionally dex-based (the latter two because they're based on Stealth) Weapon of Fortune is crud. Oathsworn is lackluster (the utility is nice, though) Dread Imperator is Unity-only. Relentless Slayer is, ok, strong, but I'm turned off by the two worthless features (the L12 utility and the Slayer's Oaths are both worth than useless -- traps that you should never use or seek to take advantage of). Maybe worth retraining into at 20th for the L20 power, but still. That leaves Favored Soul -- which -is- pretty sweet, at least once you get the L16 flight ability, but the rest is still kinda meh -- heal on AP, +1 defenses until you take damage, Daze+Push+concealment 2W charge attack, daily regen stance (goes well with the defensive boost), nice controllery D20 mutlti-attack. All decent stuff, but nothing that makes you sit up and take notice except the always on flight. And I'm not interested in investing in Strength and taking a Fighter feature, and Morninglord leaves me a bit cold (as does the prospect of changing gods midstream). So -- what about the Battle Engineer? The broken utility's been dropped down to a utility, but it's still: +1 to hit and 1d6 all turn when you spend an AP (which lets you nova with AP + Avenger's Fury + Standard Action and get the bonus thrice). The L11 encounter power, while Int based, is -more- accurate than a Wis-based power (Int+3 weapon power -- in a build where Int is usually within 2 of Wis) and gives an amazing party nova power -- +Wis (+7 at 11th level) to attack and defense as an Effect. -and- has a ranged option (which is useful if you get the party to suround you and ready and find that there's nothing adjacent on your turn), just in case. And, of course, while the L12 is now a daily, getting +Int damage (or getting to give it out to the party ranger or other twin-striker) with a great crit effect all encounter is still all kinds of awesome. The rest is still pretty meh (I'm not even sure you get a benefit from the other class features and Greater Magic Weapon, though I think that's the intention and a +12 attack/+10 damage +brutal1 1/encounter party nova is just obscene), though the daily is at least quite usable and nicely controllery even on a miss). It seems to me that despite charop not even mentioning that option -- and despite a bunch of wasted (ish) abilities, that's one of the strongest possiblities I've got (not to mention fun). Even for a striker, giving the entire party a huge bonus to attack and damage (while doing a highly accurate 2W attack of your own) is going to be better most 3W or even 4W attacks, I think. What do people think? [/QUOTE]
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