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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eric Finley" data-source="post: 4852138" data-attributes="member: 83401">Also, in my experience, the Invigorating powers tend to be otherwise less useful - particularly in the damage department.  (I haven't looked at the higher levels, but at levels 1-3 you give up significant damage, and receive Invigorating and usually some kind of rider.  Nice, but not everyone's cup of tea.)  So your estimate of their usage is IMO too high; at most 50% of their attacks would be my expectation.And you also neglect rounds on which they don't get hit, during which they don't lose any THP and thus their possible gain is ignored.  To add that into your estimate, let's say they get hit 75% of the time (roughly two foes hitting at 50% each), and that an average fighter (with 31HP and one Leader-aided surge for 11HP) just barely makes it through an eight-round fight, ending up at 2HP.  That works out to two enemies per round, 50% hit each, doing 5 per hit - sounds pretty reasonable at 1st level.Where does the Battlerager end up?  Well, the odds in each round are:- 75% Invigorating x 50% hit (7 THP) x 50% takes 5HP x 50% takes 5 more HP = 3/32 odds of a net 3 damage- 75% x 50% miss (3 THP) x 50% enemy A hits x 50% enemy B hits = 3/32 of a net 7 damage taken- 75% x 50% hit (7THP) x 50% A hits x 50% B misses x2 (combinatorics) = 6/32 of a net 2THP gained- 75% x 50% miss (3THP) x A-hits-B-misses as above = 6/32 of a net 2 damage taken- 75% x 50% hit (7THP) x 50% A misses x 50% B misses = 3/32 of a net 7THP gain- 75% x 50% miss (3THP) x both miss as above = 3/32 of a net 3THP gain- 25% not Invigorating x 50% hit (3THP) x 25% both A and B hit = 1/32 of a net 7 damage taken- 25% x 50% miss (0THP) x 25% both enemies hit = 1/32 of a net 10 damage taken- 25% x 50% hit (3THP) x 50% one hits and one misses = 2/32 of a net 2 damage taken- 25% x 50% miss x 50% one hits and one misses = 2/32 of a net 5 damage taken- 25% x 50% hit (3THP) x 25% both enemies miss = 1/32 of a net 3THP gain- 25% x 50% miss (0THP) x 25% both enemies miss = 1/32 of nothing happensSo out of 32 outcomes, we have:- 3 where you gain 7THP- 4 where you gain 3THP- 6 where you gain 2THP- 1 where nothing happens- 8 where you take 2 damage- 3 where you take 3 damage- 2 where you take 5 damage- 4 where you take 7 damage- 1 where you take 10 damage(Total 32 outcomes, check.)However, because THP don't stack, he does get hurt somewhat more than at the rate of 28/32 = 0.875 HP/round, which is what that averages out to. It gets recursive, but setting it up in Excel, at the end of eight rounds this amounts to 10.1 points of damage inflicted, absolute average, over those conditions.In the same eight rounds we inflicted 40HP on the fighter, necessitating a surge.  The battlerager actually lost less net hit points than the estimated value of that surge.  Impressive.  I begin to see your point and appreciate your asking the question.(To apples-to-apples this one to your six-round example, the standard fighter in my example has taken 30 damage, the BRV has taken 7.95 damage, a difference of... 22 HP.  So the stacking didn't make an enormous difference compared to the raw calc you did, in this setup.  I would have expected more, and if someone else wants to check my math, go to town.)Tempting to add a house-ruled keyword: "Icky."  Hitting an Icky thing just isn't fun, even for a battlerager; hits on it don't trigger the BRV.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  Tongue-in-cheek, but if I find it's being a problem, the occasional use of that might just be the fix needed.  Maybe also some attacks which bypass temp HP, occasionally.  Just enough to keep the player feeling threatened - really that's my primary concern.Or I might have the THP turn into "until end of next turn melee/close damage resistance" which would mean they (a) wouldn't persist, and (b) wouldn't protect against ongoing/aura/ranged/area/trap damage.  And it's those that have done it so far (two weeks ago I had a near-TPK in which the BRV was, yes, one of the last to go down... but not the last, and not by much).</blockquote>

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