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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9464023" data-attributes="member: 6684958">But the action is not abuse by default.&nbsp; It can be abused, but then so can most things.Not exactly true.&nbsp; As long as the DM is not jumping on the table and waving things in the players faces......they will never know unless they are told.Yea, but the other side of &quot;you should be so scared of your players as to take no action&quot; is also wrong.Most RPGs don't work that way though.&nbsp; A player can't just do things, as when a player does it they are just being selfish and not playing the game.&nbsp; If the player can just sit back and do whatever and end the game...well, there is no game.But it can be hard to run a game by group votes.&nbsp; The players are not impartial and are self serving.&nbsp; So how do you take that into account?&nbsp; You can't.&nbsp; The players will just out vote the DM and &quot;win the game forever.&quot;You can't even expect most players to be rational.&nbsp; A DM can say &quot;Galt has always been a sorcerer, just your characters have never seen him cast a spell&quot;.&nbsp; And many players would never accept that rational logic.So...changing something is not editing?&nbsp; I'd point out [USER=6785785]@hawkeyefan[/USER] as my example one.&nbsp; When presented with the idea that something in the game has changed OR something about the game was not what they thought was true, his response was &quot;sounds like a crappy DM&quot;.Even &quot;in the fiction&quot; there are many ways a DM can change things on a whim......but some players will never accept it and just say &quot;crappy dm&quot;.Guess you don't understand either.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9464023, member: 6684958"] But the action is not abuse by default. It can be abused, but then so can most things. Not exactly true. As long as the DM is not jumping on the table and waving things in the players faces......they will never know unless they are told. Yea, but the other side of "you should be so scared of your players as to take no action" is also wrong. Most RPGs don't work that way though. A player can't just do things, as when a player does it they are just being selfish and not playing the game. If the player can just sit back and do whatever and end the game...well, there is no game. But it can be hard to run a game by group votes. The players are not impartial and are self serving. So how do you take that into account? You can't. The players will just out vote the DM and "win the game forever." You can't even expect most players to be rational. A DM can say "Galt has always been a sorcerer, just your characters have never seen him cast a spell". And many players would never accept that rational logic. So...changing something is not editing? I'd point out [USER=6785785]@hawkeyefan[/USER] as my example one. When presented with the idea that something in the game has changed OR something about the game was not what they thought was true, his response was "sounds like a crappy DM". Even "in the fiction" there are many ways a DM can change things on a whim......but some players will never accept it and just say "crappy dm". Guess you don't understand either. [/QUOTE]

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