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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9471873" data-attributes="member: 6684958">And that makes no sense.&nbsp; It's like doing the cross word puzzle I made, or worse: reading my own book. I don't want to get bogged down in just this one game.But to say the DM can just ignore the players seems to defeat the point of even playing this type of game.&nbsp; The game is &quot;player lead&quot;, except when the DM says &quot;nope&quot;? Just as you drag out the game to fill the session time, does not change the &quot;win&quot; aspect.&nbsp; I know the treasure is a spot seven.....but sure I can spend hours and hours &quot;pretending&quot; to check spots 1-6 and 8-12 and....amazingly...not find the treasure.This is the other aspect.&nbsp; The player lead game is all about the characters being the special chosen ones that the whole game world revolves around.So, sure, for the fluff of this type of game it would have to be &quot;Oh look it is the treasure map my all powerful pirate lord father left me!&quot;But in other types of games, characters can just find treasure maps that are in no way directly related specifically to their character.Well, I'm on the far side of Real RPG experiences.&nbsp;&nbsp; I want the players to feel real emotions.&nbsp; And a big part of this is the players must be 100% in the dark about everything.&nbsp; They experience the game only as their character.So the &quot;emotional stakes&quot; of a player making a lost treasure and putting it in the game....then&nbsp; they just sort of look around and say &quot;gosh wonder if I will ever find my hidden treasure&quot; is not really &quot;stakes&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9471873, member: 6684958"] And that makes no sense. It's like doing the cross word puzzle I made, or worse: reading my own book. I don't want to get bogged down in just this one game. But to say the DM can just ignore the players seems to defeat the point of even playing this type of game. The game is "player lead", except when the DM says "nope"? Just as you drag out the game to fill the session time, does not change the "win" aspect. I know the treasure is a spot seven.....but sure I can spend hours and hours "pretending" to check spots 1-6 and 8-12 and....amazingly...not find the treasure. This is the other aspect. The player lead game is all about the characters being the special chosen ones that the whole game world revolves around. So, sure, for the fluff of this type of game it would have to be "Oh look it is the treasure map my all powerful pirate lord father left me!" But in other types of games, characters can just find treasure maps that are in no way directly related specifically to their character. Well, I'm on the far side of Real RPG experiences. I want the players to feel real emotions. And a big part of this is the players must be 100% in the dark about everything. They experience the game only as their character. So the "emotional stakes" of a player making a lost treasure and putting it in the game....then they just sort of look around and say "gosh wonder if I will ever find my hidden treasure" is not really "stakes". [/QUOTE]

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