Be aware and take care

[Luce]

Lately I been reading trough my old Dragon magazines and happen on number good articles, no real surprise there.
Of particular interest was the title article found in #79. It deals with advise for better survival in edition neutral way.
Now I would like to ask my fellow enworlders:

1. Do your DM allow you as players to create a default list/procedural patterns. For example, after an adventure cast detect invisibility, organize ambushes at random intervals on the way back to base to be sure that you are not followed. Smart enemies can sure bring the fight to the PCs.
2. Do you keep reserves. Like having a invisible spell caster, who does not engage until (s)he can deliver a telling (and hopefully fatal) attack. I know invisibility is not what it used to be but even in third a few levels of rogue and the right equipment may allow this ti be pulled off.
3. Can this work: Charm an ork. Polymorph said ork into something more powerful. If it keeps it ork mentality it should still be charmed. As long as you explain before hand this should not be seen as hostile action on your part.(I do not think the critter would refuse more powerful form)
4. Do you use creative application of illusions? Skull with an visual appearance of a Medusa head, presented in a proper manner can powerful incentive for some enemies to retreat.
5. Do the party gets out while it still have some “bottom”. Meaning pace itself so it is ready for at least one more battle before it can reach safety. Here is a quote regarding this:
   “A party is like a boxer. A punch which wouldn't hurt much at the start of round one could knock out the tired,hurt boxer in the thirteenth round.“

The article has been a real eye opener. I feel ashamed as a DM that I had failed to exploit my players lack of oversight. Well no more!
:sound effect: evil DM laughter

 

[Vegepygmy]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes

 

[roguerouge]

Lately I been reading trough my old Dragon magazines and happen on number good articles, no real surprise there.
Of particular interest was the title article found in #79. It deals with advise for better survival in edition neutral way.

I remember this one. A trip down memory lane.

[*]Do your DM allow you as players to create a default list/procedural patterns. For example, after an adventure cast detect invisibility, organize ambushes at random intervals on the way back to base to be sure that you are not followed. Smart enemies can sure bring the fight to the PCs.

This level of paranoia has not been necessary. Generally, my smarter villains use things like zoning, tax law, and recruitment to get their revenge. The cited tactics are thug-smart, not actually smart.

Do you keep reserves. Like having a invisible spell caster, who does not engage until (s)he can deliver a telling (and hopefully fatal) attack. I know invisibility is not what it used to be but even in third a few levels of rogue and the right equipment may allow this ti be pulled off.

Sort of. At low levels, the cleric's healing serves as a reserve. Summoned monsters have functioned that way. But, generally speaking, the blitzkreig of standard actions have been our favored strategy.

Can this work: Charm an ork. Polymorph said ork into something more powerful. If it keeps it ork mentality it should still be charmed. As long as you explain before hand this should not be seen as hostile action on your part.(I do not think the critter would refuse more powerful form)

No. Transforming CE creatures into more powerful forms is ripe for a disaster.

Do you use creative application of illusions? Skull with an visual appearance of a Medusa head, presented in a proper manner can powerful incentive for some enemies to retreat.

Sigh. I wish I belonged to a party that used illusions in the old ways.

Do the party gets out while it still have some “bottom”. Meaning pace itself so it is ready for at least one more battle before it can reach safety. Here is a quote regarding this:
“A party is like a boxer. A punch which wouldn't hurt much at the start of round one could knock out the tired,hurt boxer in the thirteenth round.“
[/LIST]

First thing to do in a dungeon is to head to a corner and find a defensible spot to hole up later on. Once you've got your save point secured, you can go towards the back center of the map, where the BBEG usually is.

 

[Mark]

I feel ashamed as a DM that I had failed to exploit my players lack of oversight.

My concern has often been to not over-exploit oversight and wind up with too many PC deaths. I tend to make assumptions about precautions based on party level and the amount of time PCs have been together.

 

[Delta]

Can this work: Charm an ork. Polymorph said ork into something more powerful. If it keeps it ork mentality it should still be charmed. As long as you explain before hand this should not be seen as hostile action on your part.(I do not think the critter would refuse more powerful form)

This is the only one I'd object to. It was made clear in 1E that NPC's would not want to be polymorphed -- remember, there was a system shock roll, about 50% chance for instant death in either direction of the polymorph. If you put it in 3E terms, a chance of losing their mind would be just as bad.

 

[Ulrick]

Great article to discuss!

1. I, as a DM, allow players to have default procedure patterns. Players often don't take advantage of this. I'll mention this for my next game. It'd make combat go faster.

2. Unless one has a large party, reserves is difficult to pull off. I know back in AD&D parties were a lot bigger. Fortunately, 4e allows for larger parties without unbalancing the game (unlike 3.5e).

3. Depends on the current errata for the polymorph spell. ;D

4. I, as a player, have used illusions this way.

5. Yes...and I think more players should take the advice "You can't beat everything."

 

[Luce]

Mark:
I meant it in a good way. I do not wish to kill the PCs just make their lives more exciting.

Delta:
What you say is true, my 2ed book do state that most creatures do not wish to experience it. it also specifically gives an example of ork being turned into white dragon. Still the tactic is not out of the question, as its new best friend you may be able to convince it to take the risk, especially if you promise to turn it back with dispel magic(wheather you keep your promise is another question)
Now in 3ed does not mention anything about the creature loosing it mind, running a risk of dieing or objecting(Drag 280)

roguerouge:
About Your comment concerning enemy retaliation tactics.
Smart villains are not always sociable, or understanding of other species society. Creatures like a mind flayer and a devil will undoubtedly at least consider what you described, but Chaotic being like a Big Red or a demon probably would not, opting instead for more direct confrontation.
Also, in my experience, PCs became less dependent on society as they grow in power.
PS: By the way do you play Vampire? If not please consider it, the tactic you describe seems very much in the style of that game.

Ulrick (and others who remember favorably the "old days")
You might have already seen this, but it deserves to be mentioned again:
Quick Primer for Old School Gaming by Matthew Finch (Book) in Games

 

[roguerouge]

roguerouge:
About Your comment concerning enemy retaliation tactics.
Smart villains are not always sociable, or understanding of other species society. Creatures like a mind flayer and a devil will undoubtedly at least consider what you described, but Chaotic being like a Big Red or a demon probably would not, opting instead for more direct confrontation.
Also, in my experience, PCs became less dependent on society as they grow in power.
PS: By the way do you play Vampire? If not please consider it, the tactic you describe seems very much in the style of that game.

Two recent examples of smart enemy tactics:

1. Infect the local zoo with a plague that you already have a cure to. Create a stampede, loosing the plague carriers in the city. Sell the city its cures. When captured, use the PC barbarian's uncertainty about what was really going on to create reasonable doubt. Skip bail and plot revenge.

2. Have ball and give PCs an award for heroism in breaking up the lower levels of your doomsday cult. This may distract them or at least distract everyone else in town from your evil plot going on right under their noses. Have your LN dupe suss out what their motivations and goals are. Have another dupe pretend to be "in over his head" and recruit the PCs for an ill-advised assassination attempt in your palace. Should they fail to take the bait, wait until they race out of town for the magic doo-hickey to thwart your evil plan. While they do so, you pay hookers to impersonate the party members as they streetwalk, ruining their "heroic" reputation. Pray to your dark god that your minions guarding the doohickey are sufficient to prevent heroes' inevitable righteous wrath. Which will be very sweet for them.

 

[Luce]

Bravo.
That is some sophisticated planning.
When (if?) the players win against such a villain, the satisfaction will be immense indeed.

 

[roguerouge]

roguerouge:
Smart villains are not always sociable, or understanding of other species society. Creatures like a mind flayer and a devil will undoubtedly at least consider what you described, but Chaotic being like a Big Red or a demon probably would not, opting instead for more direct confrontation.

Also, in my experience, PCs became less dependent on society as they grow in power.

PS: By the way do you play Vampire? If not please consider it, the tactic you describe seems very much in the style of that game.

I don't actually. Should I? What's a good intro? A good module for it? Those help me get the sense of a system.

As for the big reds and demons, I don't tend to think of them as all that devious. They tend to be rampagers or smart in that they send out their minions to die first or avoid stupid tactics and use good spell combos. Smart, to me, involves more indirection than Chaotics (with their lack of planning and team work) usually pull off. A bit of my bias, perhaps.