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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pickles JG" data-source="post: 6322876" data-attributes="member: 61501">I am not sure 4e minions think of themselves as such -they are the heroes of their own stories, sadly their stories are not the ones we are telling. We came across minions in Feng Shui but I used to argue against adding minions to 3e.  I thought they were already there - low level monsters that were killed incidentally (eg ogres when we were fighting a pack of giants). The difference is that those ogres posed no credible threat to PCs while minions do - in fact they are scary if you cannot take them down quickly. 5e should sort this out to everyone's satisfaction as mooks remain threatening but will go down fast.Low level D&D was not tense in my 3e experience (I cannot really remember 1e - frustrating is my vague recollection). In 3e at low levels monster damage could fairly easily knock you unconscious but was very unlikely to take you to -10. High level is where it got tense & dangerous when a monster could deal 40 points of damage in a round so you were close to death if you had 30 HP. Neither is very satisfactory - -8 hp at level 1 or 2 is too far gone to heal efficiently so you were out for the day or the next one too. Bleating & running when you have a big chunk of HP also seem lame. 4e evened this out but probably made it a bit too safe as characters hardly ever die & the real risk is a TPK when too many PCs go down quickly. I shall lok forward to seeing how 5e does it. Triple what? This reflects your blinkered view. Nothing has HP for PCs to triple - I don't think 4e has to be consistent with 1e for it to be internally consistent. Minions are obvious issue here but it's a separate one. D&D is a terrible simulation. 4e took what D&D was best for - killing things & taking their stuff & made robust consistent rules for doing that.</blockquote>

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