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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6324496" data-attributes="member: 87792">If I've understood&nbsp; [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s meaning, the clearest cut example of Flexible Backstory is&nbsp; Vincent Baker's Apocalypse World.&nbsp; In it the GM is instructed to prepare&nbsp; absolutely nothing before character creation.&nbsp; How the world actually works is revealed to both the GM and the players in the course of play.And&nbsp; Apocalypse World and its spinoff Monsterhearts are the two most&nbsp; immersive RPGs I know, with in play the two most immediate worlds and&nbsp; with the characters being embedded in the setting in a way that no&nbsp; pre-existing world can match.This is a strawman.&nbsp; If you want higher level areas have higher level areas.&nbsp;4E is in my opinion the best fantasy sim edition of D&amp;D ever.If&nbsp; the ref started kicking the ball around they wouldn't just be a&nbsp; referee.&nbsp; They'd be a player as well.&nbsp; The second the DM picks up the&nbsp; dice they cease to be an entirely disinterested referee. This is a bug&nbsp; in some styles of game (really old school dungeon crawling) and a&nbsp; feature in others (White Wolf calling the GM the Storyteller) - but in&nbsp; all it is a fact of life.&nbsp; There is far more scope for a player who can&nbsp; send other players off to be abusive than there is for one who can't.Neither is the DMPC. Nor the Monty Haul DM.&nbsp; Nor the Railroading&nbsp; Storyteller.&nbsp; Nor the DM's Girlfriend.&nbsp; Also using diplomacy is a matter&nbsp; of using the rules as they were designed.&nbsp; That's a game design issue.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6324496, member: 87792"] If I've understood [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s meaning, the clearest cut example of Flexible Backstory is Vincent Baker's Apocalypse World. In it the GM is instructed to prepare [I]absolutely nothing[/I] before character creation. How the world actually works is revealed to [I]both[/I] the GM and the players in the course of play. And Apocalypse World and its spinoff Monsterhearts are the two most immersive RPGs I know, with in play the two most immediate worlds and with the characters being embedded in the setting in a way that no pre-existing world can match. This is a strawman. If you want higher level areas have higher level areas. 4E is in my opinion the best fantasy sim edition of D&D ever. If the ref started kicking the ball around they wouldn't just be a referee. They'd be a player as well. The second the DM picks up the dice they cease to be an entirely disinterested referee. This is a bug in some styles of game (really old school dungeon crawling) and a feature in others (White Wolf calling the GM the Storyteller) - but in all it is a fact of life. There is far more scope for a player who can send other players off to be abusive than there is for one who can't. Neither is the DMPC. Nor the Monty Haul DM. Nor the Railroading Storyteller. Nor the DM's Girlfriend. Also using diplomacy is a matter of using the rules as they were designed. That's a game design issue. [/QUOTE]

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