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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8545954" data-attributes="member: 23751">The travel rules are irrelevant and don't say what you think they say in any case.  The specific initiative rules control the situation. All the passive perception not counting means is that the PC in question is automatically surprised.    Here's the travel rules quotes.  Note how they are individual.Noticing Threats."Use the passive Wisdom (Perception) scores of the characters to determine whether anyone in the group notices a hidden threat." - Anyone, singular."Surprising Foes. If the adventurers encounter a hostile creature or group, the DM determines whether the adventurers or their foes might be surprised when combat erupts. See chapter 9 for more about surprise." - Use the combat surprise rules with individual checks.The travel rules support me here, not you.  You keep trying to pull out one sentence that you think contradicts multiple clear rules as if that will prove you right and the multiple clear rules wrong.  It doesn't work that way. When you have a sentence like, "These characters don't contribute their passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to the group's chance of noticing hidden threats." that can be interpreted two ways.  The first as a sentence that just means that group's (all individuals separately in the group) chances of noticing a threat go down if people are distracted, and the second as a group check that contradicts multiple other rules, the one that contradicts is flat out wrong.You're correct.  They still have passive perception.  They just can't use it in certain situations. "These characters don't contribute their passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to the group's chance of noticing hidden threats."There are restrictions.  Sometimes you auto fail because of distraction.  RAW is crystal clear on that.No.  You are wrong.  The noticing threats subsection in travel is to help guide you into the combat section.  I mean, it literally tells you that.  I'll quote it a second time in this same post.  From the travel rules, noticing threats subsection."Surprising Foes. If the adventurers encounter a hostile creature or group, the DM determines whether the adventurers or their foes might be surprised when combat erupts. See chapter 9 for more about surprise." - Use the combat surprise rules with individual checks.</blockquote>

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