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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8548184" data-attributes="member: 7032025">I think that there is a bit of confusion here about the "group check". When I mention this, it's because it's a check that benefits the group, in - if it's successful - providing information to the whole group, not only the characters succeeding.After that, it's often an option to use the actual "group check" rule, but in this case, it's a bit complicated, since the PCs are not making the ability check, they are actually simply providing the DC for the stealth check of the monsters. So if anyone would be doing a group check there, it's actually the monsters, if more than half succeed against the DC set by the PP of the characters (and only those watching an in a position to watch), then the PCs don't notice them.It could be reversed if the PCs were actually making active perception checks, but the assumption of the travel rules is that they are not, they're juste "routinely" watching ahead on the path of their travel to notice hidden threats.But thanks for rewording, you are basically correct, with maybe a precision for the conclusion, which depends when the ambush is located, because if for example the PCs notice the orcs on top of the ravine, they will probably not engage the orcs on that basis and there might not even be a fight, and certainly no surprise.Yes, that is a fair summary . There are a few details in there, for example see above about the "group check", or about the fact that characters who failed at the "notice hidden threat" might still succeed at the surprise check because of situational modifiers, but these are clearly edge case.What do you think ?</blockquote>

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