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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8551152" data-attributes="member: 7032025">OK, let's take one step back here. I was assuming that you were like [USER=97077]@iserith[/USER], supporting the position that if you are travelling, and are turning your attention to other tasks, you give up your passive perception and are automatically surprised by any combat happening. Is that the case ? Or is your position different than this ?Because, just in case it is, I'm very curious what you think supports your interpretation in the sites that I've provided...My position, just to be clear, is that, like any other check, the DM is free to put in any modifier that he likes, adv/dis or even auto-success/failure, but turning this into "and surprise happens all the time because the rules say so" is incorrect and absurd. So I'm not arguing FOR a specific position, I'm just arguing AGAINST the interpretation above being a direct consequence of the rules.And the main reason for that is that although you can do shortcuts like [USER=97077]@iserith[/USER] mentions and say "when monsters attack from stealth it's directly combat and it's just about surprise", my perspective is that there is way more to the game than this.And in particular, there are two distinct phases:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Travel: the party is considered as a group, they decide on the route to take, they assign tasks to characters, some people watch for danger, and if there is a hidden threat, the GROUP has a chance to notice it in advance, it's just that people doing other tasks than watching for danger don't contribute to THAT chance to notice it in advance (just as, by the way, so might people who are not at the right position in terms of marching order).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Combat: It's individual, and everyone checks against everyone on the opposite side (with possible use of passives and/or group checks) to see who is surprised.</li> </ol>The problem is that [USER=97077]@iserith[/USER] only considers the second one, but absolutely wants to apply one rule from the first case to the second one (and the rules make it clear that these are two very different activities, not in the same section, just one pointing to the other IF AND WHEN it occurs). And honestly, it's fairly pointless, because if people are NOT travelling, there are no reasons to apply the rules for travelling (clearly restricted to "Characters who turn their attention to other tasks as the group travels") to people being simply distracted from reading, or talking or watching a play.And the simple fact is that all the sites and in particular JC are extremely clear on the fact that your PP is always on, unless you are unconscious (or the equivalent, for example petrified since it "is unaware of its surroundings."). Note that he mentions specifically THAT condition (and equivalent), and no other condition like Incapacitated, Paralysed, Stunned, etc.So if your PPis on when you are incapacitated, paralysed or stunned, why would it be affected when you are just taking notes now and then to trace the route on a map ?So, once more, I have nothing about individual DMs using circumstances to adjust rolls, including auto-success/failure, but saying that you mandatorily autofail any passive perception as soon as you are distracted is certainly not present in any rule in the book nor is it mentioned in all the sites that I've provided (whereas the opposite is certainly clear from all of them PP is always on).Is our mutual understanding getting better or did I miss anything ? Do you want me to explain more about the first phase above ?For me, that first phase is extremely important, by the way, because it's the "freedom phase" for the players in the sense that THEY decide how they are travelling, by which route, taking which precautions, etc. And therefore, for the DM, playing ALONG with them and making sure that their actions are taken into consideration for what happens on the route is paramount to making clear that the players and their PCs matter, that it's THEIR adventure, and that the DM is not just arbitrarily creating fights because he can or because he lacks the will or the imagination to manage more complex situations.</blockquote>

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