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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6475765" data-attributes="member: 4937">Hobgoblin: I'm more or less on your side in this debate, but you probably should dial it back just a bit.  A couple of times there you let your passion get the better of you.  First, while I agree with where you end up - single 'standard' class per race makes no sense - I don't actually agree with how you get there.  You neglect the possibility that the culture of the race could be both alien and also that individuals would still have separate life paths and experiences.  I disagree for example that standing army implies the presence of fighters or visa versa that the presence of fighters implies a standing army.  Presumably, a fighting force could be composed of any class capable of adventuring.  Standing armies imply nation-state organization and hierarchical social structure.  But those things aren't prerequisites for military force - you could simply have a society were everyone learns to fight and organizes themselves based solely on mutual self-interest.  Humans might not be very good at this sort of thing but the general idea, "Everyone head to the sound of battle", generally would simulate greater command and control than most primitive human societies were able to manage anyway. Also, your argument for hard specialization neglects the possibility that Class + Background would probably be sufficient enough to differentiate woodworkers, tailors, and teamsters.   All we'd need for most professions is simply one skill which differs between individuals.I think what your argument does support is something closer to at least the 1e AD&D approach where each race could belong to a range of classes according to their temperament and culture, but not necessarily every class equally.  Conversely, the presence of the multi-classed options suggests that non-human races might have some options for life experience not really available to humans due to differences in aptitude.  For example, you might decide that only elves can truly sing magic into being, so only elves could be Bards.   On the other end, if you agree that Elves should be some combination of wizards and fighters, why must they all lie in the exact middle of this spectrum?  Why could some choose to neglect the fighting arts in order to focus on wizardry, or vica versa.  Why does Melvior the Lame have to keep practicing with a bow when he needs a staff just to hobble around?  And so forth.Of course, it might be possible to have an entire race of clones with identical aptitude and interest, and while that is suitably alien I'm not sure it makes for that interesting of a PC race.  The main reason for advocating multiple class options for each race seems to me to have a gamist reasoning - it's just more interesting to have diversity.</blockquote>

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